All About Burnout w/ Lisa Huff

Let me guess, you are a hustling, bustling hairstylist behind the chair, working so hard to build a beautiful career for yourself, one that gives you time, freedom, and energy to spend with yourself, your family, and your friends. But you feel like you're always working in your business, even when you're not behind the chair. My name's Hunter Donia, and I help you automate your systems and implement really beautiful strategies so you can grow your business without the overwhelm. And this is the Modern Hairstylist Podcast.

Hey, Leisa. How are you? Hello, Hunter. I am so good.

How are you? Dude, I'm so frickin' hyped to have you on here, Leisa. You are one of my very frickin' good friends. I am so beyond grateful to have you in my life, and I think that what you do for the industry is absolutely magnificent and super unique, because you, you go all in, in, in specifically what you do, right?

And so if you wouldn't mind, Leisa, give us a little bit of an introduction about who you are, how you serve the industry, and, um, what brings us here today to be chatting on the podcast. Cool. Well, thank you for those sweet words. I agree, we have become very close in a very short period of time, and I definitely lean on you constantly, um, and I love that we have this friendship.

So, my name is Leisa Huff. For those of you that don't know me, I am a hairstylist and the creator of Stylist Soul Tribe, which is a mastermind membership for hairstylists. So I work behind the chair three days a week. I'm in Central Illinois, and then I also have a little online business, my mastermind membership.

I love it. And tell me why I threw you into doing this podcast episode with me today. Um, so I sent Hunter a message, and I sent a few other people in my world the same message, because in my mastermind membership, I do some coaching, but it's really a community of hairstylists. And I kept hearing the word burnout coming up, and I mean, for months.

Honestly, honestly, let's be real. Since the pandemic, I've heard an overwhelming amount of people using, "I'm burnt out," like, not, "I'm depressed," not, "I'm exhausted," not, "I'm overwhelmed, overworked." Like, "I'm a shell of a human. I'm a zombie.

I'm burnt out." Like, "I, I don't know why I don't love what I'm doing, but this is how I'm feeling," and that breaks my heart every day when I hear that, because I don't want anybody to live like that. And I'm on a mission to kind of figure that out a little bit and help people out. So, I sent Hunter a message just saying like, "Hey, I'm inspired by the way your brain works.

What are your thoughts on burnout? What does it mean to you? Have you experienced it? When you experience it, what kind of tools do you use to get yourself out of it?

How do you prevent it?" Yada, yada. And he's like, "Let's do a podcast," so here we are. I love it, dude.

Thank you so much for being willing to chat with me. I just think that the idea is really cool. And you know, I mean, I talk a lot about like, like I talk a lot about preventing burnout, like just in general, like with my, on the podcast and like with, with my course and all the things. And so, so you know, this is right up my alley, and I, and I love to talk about it.

And I think that it's so fascinating that you are gathering stories and people's definitions of b- burnout and their own experiences, et cetera, et cetera, from multiple people, right? Because we just had, um, Speaking Grief come onto the podcast, and they talk, they, they basically educate people about grief, long, very long story short. And one of the biggest things that I've learned from them is how grief is so non-linear, and it is so different for every single person, and it, um, comes about in so many different ways, right, for human beings. And I think that's, that's the case for any type of emotion or feeling or experience that us as human beings have.

Like, we are all so fricking different, and different phases of our lives, we're gonna feel things differently for whatever it may be. And so I think it's really brilliant that, you know, you're creating, um, a resource or you're collecting these experiences from multiple people, because it'll help people realize that they're not alone, right? Yeah, and that was important to me too, because like I said, I'm hearing that word from so many different people, and I think that word means different things to different people. And I'm kind of trying to come w- to like a consensus of...

'Cause I don't, I don't really, um, I don't feel like super connected to the word burnout. I, I get stressed sometimes. I get overwhelmed sometimes. I get grumpy sometimes.

I don't feel super connected to that word, so it kind of like shatters me when I hear people say that. But what I've learned in this research and like crowdsourcing a little bit people's opinions is, certainly what a lot of people describe as burnout, I, I have experienced. Um, and the, the thoughts that people have of why you got there and how to get yourself out are so vastly different, but so interesting. So my hope is that even if one person's opinion doesn't land with somebody, maybe somebody else's will.

I just think it's kind of a cool concept to get a lot of people's input on that. Yeah, so what have you, what have you found, like thus far? Like, tell me a little bit about like the, some of the things that you've heard that have been prominent in your brain and, and tell us the tea. So much, yeah.

I'm literally actually gonna share like a quote or two then from- Yeah. from what I have written so far. So this little, uh, ebook I'm putting together isn't done yet. It will be available for you guys by the time this comes out.

Okay, our friend Kimber Chapman, she said, "I would say burnout for me is waking up and thinking about my day and knowing that I don't have enough gas in the tank to take it all on." We've all certainly felt that way before, you know? And then we have, uh, Audrey, who's in Soul Tribe, she said, "Burnout to me means that I wanna drop all the balls I'm juggling and walk away. It means I didn't set boundaries that were true to me and my experience.

Perhaps I got too caught up in doing what I thought I should be doing instead of what brings me joy. It means I didn't balance all the aspects of my life that are priority me- priority to me and my happiness, that I was working on too many low-value projects at the same time." And then some other people have said things like, "If I get burnt out, that means I'm completely out of alignment and I'm chasing the wrong thing." And like that can be a scary thing when somebody hears that, you know?

So I just think it's really fascinating. I honestly don't even know what my strong opinion is. I think that concepts vary, but I like that everybody has their, their own idea of it. So I think it's a combination of everything, and it means different things to different people.

But I think it's something that needs to be talked about, because people are just over here feeling this way, and like we want, you need to be supportive of that. Totally. So what comes up for me is like, I heard like, "I'm out of alignment with what is truly meant for me, or like, what brings me joy," right? And it's like, how do you balance the hard work that you don't want to freaking do that-...

will get you to where you want to be. Like, what if the where you want to be is the place of joy, passion, and happiness, but you have to do the shit that you don't want to do to get there, right? I mean, like, we all have shit that we don't want to do that has gotten us- Mm-hmm. to where we are today.

And so, I, to m- maybe, maybe, like, I don't know. What do you think about that? Like, 'cause that's what comes up for me. Yeah, I love what that was.

So, I think maybe that's where we go then, from where I would say that I feel more aligned with the words stressed, overwhelmed, overw- like, maybe that. But I think when it hits burnout, maybe, maybe not, but what I think, when I, when it hits that is, is what you're doing going to bring you to that spot? Yes. Or have you lost what that spot even is?

Do you not even know what you're aiming towards anymore? Because sure, they, on a daily basis, I do things that are not as fun as, like, going to the beach, you know? But that doesn't mean that I still have a fire inside of me to do them, because I know where they're getting me. Fascinating.

And I think that's where people get lost, is when they lose that, like, that vision ahead. Yeah, like when the passion doesn't outweigh... The passion and, the passion towards wanting the goal, or the passion towards creating whatever you wanna create, whatever the end result is, whenever that is lost, right, a- and, and you really just, like, don't feel like doing it anymore, I mean, maybe that's it. I mean, so with me, like, with my ADHD, right, people with ADHD, uh, and me, the super common theme throughout my life is not finishing the first project before I finish, or before I start the new one, right?

And so, I don't think that's, like, burnout, you know? I don't think, I don't think, like, like, stopping halfway through something that you're working towards is burnout. I would call that your creative process. I'm the same way.

Yeah. But I also don't hold too much attachment to that. There's things that I've started projects and then circled back on a year later. Right.

There's, I have a, a pile of half-finished projects, but I don't know, to me, that's, that's a creative process, in my opinion. Yeah, fascinating. Super interesting to me. And do you think, so somebody said boundaries, right?

Do you think that boundaries are a massive, important part of preventing burnout? Personally, I do. It's been fascinating. I've gotten a few responses from people saying that, like, people think it's self-care and bubble baths and boundaries- Mm-hmm.

and it's actually, like, deeper than that, which is an interesting concept. But I think that boundaries are deep. I don't think boundaries are a surface level conversation, you know? Um, and I certainly know when I, my boundaries start to slip, which I've gotten pretty solid in, uh, throughout time, but when my boundaries start to slip, it definitely affects the way that I feel, the way that I behave.

And certainly, seeing stylists who struggle with boundaries big time, they're typically extremely burnt out. Yeah. I think, like, when you get burnt out, there's probably literally no, there's probably... I know that you're pretty woo, Lisa, and I know that I'm pretty not, you know?

So, I don't know how much this resonates with you, but for, but for me, like, when burnout is happening, that probably means, like, you are not getting the chemical releases in your brain that are helping you show up where you need to show up any- anymore, right? Like, you are not getting any dopamine releases towards, like, the work that you want to get done, or, like, getting out of bed and doing whatever you need to do to live your day, right? And I think that what boundaries do is boundaries, like, protect that steady flow, right? Pro- uh, boundaries protect that steady flow of, like, those dopamine releases.

It protects your energy to be able to create that, that chemical reward in your brain, right? Because the more that you, like, screw yourself over, like, the more that you, um, the more that you let in that is not serving you, right, at the end of the day, the less likely you're going to view the work that you're doing as something that is worth it or enjoyable, or your brain is gonna start viewing it as this very big, exhausting task. And so, then your brain, like, creates this, like, narrative around it, and then you probably don't really, you, you probably don't get as much reward from working on it anymore, or even, like, wanting to go work on it anymore. Absolutely.

No, and what you were just saying, like, the words that I would put that into is that boundaries almost hold space for you to operate the way you operate during your highs, during your lows. But here's the thing. When we have no boundaries and we have no freedom to our time, and we have, we're pulled in a million directions at all times, even when you get those hits of inspiration, there's no time to do the thing that you wanna do. And when you have boundaries in your schedule and how people contact you, you kind of get to do your own flow of those highs and lows.

'Cause I can tell you, I o- I'll have a day off that I think I'm gonna get a bunch of stuff done and crush a bunch of stuff, and I can't stop scrolling TikTok. Yeah. And that's just that, you know? So yeah, when you were saying that, that really clicked to me.

I al- I, I almost think that's where boundaries become important, not just in the moment where, you know, a client makes you feel crappy 'cause they're not respecting your boundaries, but almost in a broad spectrum, like, not even thinking about individual people, but boundaries are just there to hold space for you. Yeah, I love that. I love that so much, very much so. What else do you think about burnout?

You said that you haven't really experienced burnout yourself, like, fully, right? And I guess it just depends on how you would define it. Like, like, you, just, like, like, you, Lisa, as Lisa Huff, would you define burnout as, like, wit and no more, like, "I'm not doing this project anymore. I literally can't"?

Or is it something that you can kind of, like, come back from? Yeah, see, that's hard, and that's why I don't wanna give, like, my own blanket definition to it, 'cause I think you're right. I think when I hear the word burnout, I just don't love, I, I don't know, it doesn't feel good in me, so I'm not really gonna, like, claim that, which is- Yeah. very woo, but, like, to me, uh, if I have to imagine myself burnt out, let me also say I'm an Enne- Enneagram 7, so I'm a very optimistic person, but if I- Same.

were to, were to imagine myself burnt out...... it would be like there's nothing left of Lisa- Yup. like, that, and I don't think I've been to that point before. Um, and I, what I wanna say, what I've learned, and what I think is fair to say is that I do think there's stages of burnout.

I think there's stress, I think there's overwhelm, I think there's "burnout," you know, in air quotes, and then I think there's, like, chronic burnout, you know? And so I think maybe what I'm picturing is more like a chronic burnout phase, because there's just some people that I will see in my everyday life and my coaching life who just live in a constant state of burnout, and that makes me sad, and I'm, like, on a mission to try to figure out how to help people like that because I, I don't know what that answer is, but you gotta, I, I, I wanna help people find something to light the fire. It's different for everybody. For me, I don't think, like if we, if we were to imagine defining burnout, and I like the phases, right?

Like, as, like, you know, burnout, chronic burnout, all that. If we were to define, I don't think I've ever experienced, like, "I am done." Like, "I'm, I'm just completely giving up, I'm not gonna work towards making this better." Right?

Maybe that's, like, maybe that's, like, something to consider, right? Like, is there a space of burnout where it's, like, I don't even feel like trying to make this better for me versus, like, before getting to that point, there are ways that you can turn things around, you know? And so I've been, I've, I remember two points in my, in my career at least, right, where it was like, "Shit needs to fucking change." And Lisa, you're a part of my fir- my, one of the first, the first time for me, was when I was in my suite and it was, like, the early days of Clubhouse .

And, um, I was in my suite, and I was just, like, working my titties off. I was, like, in there seven days a week, 24/7. I was, like, saying yes to all these services I didn't wanna do. It was absolutely awful, and I had, and I did not have the boundaries that I have n- nearly as close to a- what I have now.

And it wasn't, if it wasn't for me having the courage to make a difference, then if I kept on letting that go, then I probably would get past that point of maybe possibly no return. But the burnout, the "burnout" quote unquote for me actually fueled me to be like, "Okay, something needs to change now." Like, "It has to change now." Like, it was like, it was almost like the fuel that I freaking needed to make things change, you know?

And the second time was a couple of months ago when my mental health was just all over the place 'cause I was pouring so much into my career and so much into others all the freaking time, and I was like, "I need therapy. I'm over it." Uh, and if I don't do something about this, and if I don't do something about, like, me pouring back into myself, I'm gonna, there's gonna be no point of return. I, this, I'm gonna lose all of this.

And so I decided to go to therapy, and thank God that I freaking did because I'm here now, you know? Yeah. I love that, and I, that, I think that's why I asked your opinion too because you're a person that I, like, really am inspired by, like I said, the way your brain works and how you operate. And I think it takes a lot to bring yourself to that point, 'cause there's some people who feel this way day in, day out, day in, day out, almost e- years have gone by now that they've felt this way, and the fear of making a change is so debilitating to some people- Right.

that I hope if somebody's listening to this and this is just, like, a really, like, "Boom, that's me. Boom, that's me," like, you are the only person responsible for figuring out how to get yourself out of that. I want you to have a community of people you can turn to, I want you to have people, but, like, you, Hunter, had to be the one to do that, or we wouldn't be listening to this podcast. All the people in your programs wouldn't be impacted the way they were.

Like, that's just what I, I'm trying to push out and have land with people is if you've waited and waited and waited, let today be the day that you just decide, "I'm not, I'm not waiting anymore. Gotta figure out what this is." And if that means stepping away from behind the chair for a week and canceling all your clients and breathing, maybe you have to do that, or a month, or a day. I don't know what that means, but I don't know.

It just makes my heart sad when people live in that for too long. Yeah, and I mean, sometimes maybe people feel even so exhausted that it just, like, that even makes it worse, right? Like, it's not even the f- like, just the fear, 'cause the fear is 100% to, like, make a change, is, like, insane, right? Like, that fear is so hard.

And then, also, they're exhausted because they are so burnt out, they've been running themselves into the ground. They're, I have been in habits of hamster wheels where, like, I, when am I even gonna have the time to make this change, to even put in the effort and energy to make this change, right? But truly, like, I love that you said, like, we have to take responsibility for ourselves and our own happiness 'cause we deserve that for ourselves. And we're the only ones who can take action on it.

We're the only ones, and action is the only way that anything is ever gonna change. And I think that people sometimes will grab onto , we've talked about this a lot recently, I think people will grab onto certain, like, fake glimmers of hope. People will grab onto buying a new course, a new thing, a new shiny object, thinking that it's gonna, like, solve all their problems, and sometimes it might be the thing to help you do the work to, if you didn't know where to start or if you need the community, if you need the support. Sometimes, yes, like, that can truly freaking help you, like, a lot, and we've both seen that in our own spaces.

But...At the end of the day, you have to be the one to do the work. You can't buy your way out of action. You can't run away from the action that you need to take to make a difference in your own fricking life.

Mm. Would you agree? I think that's the message that needs to be said. Um, in the e-book I have a quote from my friend Kristin Sunzman, which Hunter is close with her too, and she had a really good analogy of how she put it, I'm not gon- I'm gonna butcher it a little bit, but she basically said that it's a consistent balance of body, mind and spirit, and what happens with these people who are pro- self-proclaimed education junkies and, like, can't stop consuming, is you are feeding the mind, feeding the mind, feeding the mind, feeding the mind, ignoring the body, feeding the mind, ignoring the spirit, feeding the mind, and eventually you get so out of balance.

And that just goes to, like, what you said, just buying your way out of action. I think just even that analogy is very helpful. Just think of, like, a Venn diagram almost. Like, um, how do you keep that body, mind and spirit?

Because sometimes you need to turn the mind down quite a bit and sink into the body and sink into, like, your own spiritual wellbeing, whatever that means for you. You know? But I- it's- that balance is so important and we push our mind so far- we think that we're pushing our body 'cause we're, like, physically working behind the chair, and maybe we do a little bit of that too, but what I definitely see in the industry right in this moment is overworking that mind muscle, for sure, with a lot of lack of action, leaving people feeling burnt out and inadequate, and that's hard. I feel like it's very much, like, habits too.

Mm-hmm. Because, like, it's like toxic habits, right? Because, like, you buy something, you want to change something, you start something, and then you don't actually put in the action. Maybe it wasn't the right fit for you or you just, like, didn't put in the action, and then you get down on yourself.

Mm-hmm. Right? And then you start to, like, create narratives about yourself, and it probably can possibly just make people feel worse at the end of the day too, you know? That's a beautiful analogy, though.

That stood out to me a lot, so I definitely have, like a whole page on that because Kristin is a very wise friend of mine that I, that I turn to a lot. So, um, yeah, I think that that's an important, an important aspect as well. And then another thing I just touched on in the book is kind of, like, I just wanna know people's tools- Mm-hmm. um, for pulling themselves out of it, because I want people to have that.

Me personally, I operate in a very, like, ritualistic way. Um, and so honestly when I start to get, like, stressed or stuff like that, or if I have a lot going on at one time, I almost work in, like, rituals kind of, so I have a, a little chapter called The Reset. And if I find myself even coming close to that, it's like, "Okay, bitch-" "... time for a reset."

Like, what do we need to do? What's broken? How do we fix this? How do we get our normal habits right?

Because I know when I'm moving my body, when I'm waking up before my kids, when I'm not eating Taco Bell for dinner every night, like, I know that I'm- my mental health is better. So, I, I touch on some things in that as well, and it's different for everybody, like, what their reset is. Um, Hunter, I guess I'd love to hear what your reset is and then I can kind of go into, like, a couple of my favorites that I heard as well. I feel like I don't really have a reset.

I have, I have preventative tools. Okay. Like, that's what I've had to learn how to do. So I mean, no, so number one, like, i- a- I just think natural resets for me have been my ADHD leading me into new, fresh ideas, right?

Like, new, fresh, fun things that I'm- I get excited about and I get hyper-focused on. Which can cause me issues if I don't approach those things responsibly, right? Like, I, I wanna make sure that, like, if I'm- if I get excited about something new, that I'm not leaving something important behind, and I'm not, I'm not letting it go, because that original thing could be really important and could be a really big part of my success, my happiness and my joy, all of that, right? Mm-hmm.

But I think that when I do have space to responsibly, um, chase a new idea or chase a new passion or chase a new whatever, that is super helpful for me whenever I'm a- approaching a, a burnout-y kind of phase, right? But, I mean, honestly, everything that I teach comes down back to preventative systems, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Um, systems that, that alleviate the pressure. And this just- this is not just in my fricking business. This is in my personal life. Like, I create preventative systems in my life that, that help me hold myself accountable to boundaries, and that help me take care of myself, right?

It's just the way that I've had to learn to take care of myself because of my ADHD, and, like, and it really fricking works. Like, creating... And it- and I've learned, that's what anybody, any therapist will tell you if you go to therapy for ADHD or anything, like, you need to be creating things that will help you and hold your hand in those- Mm. Mm-hmm.

in those moments, in those spaces, you know? So, for example, like, if I, if I wanna say no to something in my business that doesn't bring me joy, I have, like, a digital form that I can just send off and I don't have to be the one confronting it, you know? And then in turn, not only does that stop the, uh, the burnout from happening, not only does that take away the pressure, it also empowers me. It also makes me f- see, like, how good does it feel to say no?

And when I don't have something that is going to hold me accountable, when I don't have something in space that is going to alleviate the pressure, I have felt that empowerment. I, I now understand how worth it it is for me to, to set those boundaries for myself, right? And so now, it's way easier for me for in-person confrontations. When I'm making decisions for myself, it is so easy for me to say no now and set those boundaries because I've seen how it works for me and I see, and I see how worth it it is.

You know what I mean? Absolutely. You've reaped the benefits of those rewards m- in the past. Yeah, and I have to agree, there's no scarier feeling than before you, like, implement a boundary or, like, stand your ground.

There's no scarier feeling, and then there's also, like, no better...... rewarding feeling than when you finally do it and you're like- Yes. oh, that sigh of relief, like, I had the power to do that. And so what I was thinking when you were saying that is I think it all comes down to creating space, whether it's time, I-I need some time, I...

Just removing yourself physically, energetically- Yes. emotionally, it's just cre- uh, when you're, uh, burnt out, you need space. You need time, space to sit by yourself and veg out if that's what you need. You need energetic space where you put a form in between you and your client and it's not you directly with them.

So, I think that would be the consensus that I come to is, like, if you're ever feeling that, like, how can you create more space between you and what's making you feel burnt out right now? That doesn't mean you need to let it all go, but just how can you pull back a little bit and tap into, like, just who you are as a person? Because once you fill that up, it's a lot easier to move forward and step back into that. I love that.

And I'm such a tangible, I'm such a tangible person, you know? Like, that's why I- I have a really hard time with like woo stuff, you know? So for me, like, hearing that, it's like creating that space, right? Systematically and tangibly, delete the apps off your phone, right?

Mm-hmm. Throw your phone in the frickin' river. Like throw your phone- Don't bring your phone with you, right? Um, if that is what is energet- energetically draining you, remove yourself from the environment, the situation, like cr- I love the idea what it, of what it really comes down to is creating space because that can mean so many different things, but at the end of the day, that's, like, really what it is.

I love that very much so. I just had that light bulb moment while you were talking so I'm gonna add that into the e-book. Period. Yeah.

We're adding it into the book. I love it. Well, so, so Lisa, tell us about, so tell us about the e-book. Like, do you have, like, a landing page for it?

Like, like, is it a free download? Like, what's the tea with it, friend? Yeah, it's totally free. It's just a little something I put together, like I said, 'cause it was heavy on my heart 'cause I heard a lot of stylists talking about it right now.

So, Hunter, I'll make sure I get you the link to it before this goes live. Okay. It's not finished yet, but it will be in the show notes of this. Totally free, uh, and just check it out.

There ... And you might be, uh, meet some new people in there that you can follow. I'm gonna have clickable links to everybody's profile. And again, these are just inspiring people in my life that if you wanna grow your circle a little bit bigger and follow, you know, people with, with mindsets similar to you, then go ahead and do that.

Yeah, I love that so much. And again, like, what I love about you, Lisa, is that you bring people together and you share people's stories and strengths and experiences with each other because you, you know, you know that it will help other people and you know, um, how important it is to have community. Um, so you run Stylist Soul Tribe, right? Correct.

That's the s- that's the situation. Tell us about that too. Like, give, I know that you introduced it a little bit at the beginning, but, like, tell us about Soul Tribe, tell us about your experience and, like, what goes down in there. Yeah.

If you guys wanna give me a follow, I can, um, you'll, you'll learn more on there as well. So basically, it's just a community that I created four years ago. Uh, it started off as a very baby community, um, and I was just looking for like-minded people to chat with about business because my husband didn't understand, uh, my sister didn't understand, um, honestly, even my coworkers didn't fully understand 'cause they weren't in Thrivers and in all these things that we're doing, and they just didn't really have the same drive that I had and where I was trying to go. So I searched out on the internet, um, and had a founding group of 15 people, and over time, it's grown, we have 75 people in Soul Tribe right now.

So it's just a ton of hairstylists that think very similarly, are pretty high achieving, doing big things, and just want a really, really beautiful life in business, and we keep each other in check to have that. Um, and- Yeah. I don't think people realize how important community is until they have it. And that's what everybody says is, like, "I joined Soul Tribe for the accountability 'cause there's, you know, accountability in Masterminds, but I stay for the connection and the friends," so that's really kind of what it's turned into.

Well, and you said there's a ton, a ton of stylists in there, but there's really not. Yeah, that's true. I mean, 75 feels like a ton for me 'cause I'm overseeing everybody. But no, it's not, like, a massive group, like- Right.

you know, it's not some giant, uh, it's, it is very close-knit and intimate. I chat one on one on a daily basis with every single person in Soul Tribe. We have Marco Polo. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that app, but we are talking non-stop all day every day, and it's just, yeah, kind of a cool hangout for stylists to come together and feel heard, feel safe, discuss things they need to discuss.

The, the reason why I pointed that out was because I feel like human beings right now are, they are craving intimate support and community, like, craving it, and people really f- I feel like people really need it right now, and that's why I just, like, really value how you are running- Yeah. your community like that because it truly is like a pinnacle of it, and that's why I've approached it th- i- that way as much as I possibly can in my groups- Yeah. as well too 'cause I think that it really, it really is super needed right now. So I just wanted to make a point that you're, you're a badass.

No, I'm glad you pointed that out because Hunter, as a friend, has like helped me come to this conclusion as well that it is important to me to keep it close-knit and intimate. So, um, I don't have plans in the foreseeable future to have a ton of people in there. Um, it's high, it's high quality, and there's, there's really, really good people in there, and it's kind of a higher barrier to entry. It's still a very you can sit with us- Yeah.

kind of, kind of vibe. So I think I, I teeter on that as close and intimate, but also not too excluding. So yeah. Yeah.

It's accessible. Yes. Uh, Lisa, thank you so much for sitting down and chatting with me. Duh.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, bro. Excellent con- conversation. I learned, I learned a lot here, like, very much so, and I can't wait to see the book, so make sure to send me the frickin' link, and I'll make sure to put the link in the show notes for you, my friend, listening to this.

Lisa, you'll, you'll, I mean, you'll, like, definitely be on the podcast again, so, like, I'm not even gonna, like, pretend that you won't be. Well, then we will all talk soon. Okay. Yeah.

Can't wait. Good stuff. Um, thank you, friend, for tuning back into the Modern Hair Stylist podcast. I really freakin' appreciate it.

Check out the show notes, and if you enjoyed this episode, then please go ahead and take a moment of your time if you're not driving, like, don't do anything unsafe, but leave me a five star, uh, testimonial. It'll help me reach more hungry, amazing, beautiful beauty professionals just like you, and we wanna create a lot of change in this industry. So if you are down to help me create that change, I would really appreciate it. So much love.

Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2022 Hunter Donia LLC.