Boundaries For Independent Stylists vs. Salon Stylists

Hello, my friend. Welcome back to The Modern Hair Stylist podcast. So, you are in for a special one today, because we are gonna be talking all about some good ol' boundaries for you as a hair stylist behind the chair. Now, my friend, Rob, from the Hairdresser Strong show, um, he posted something on Instagram about how...

Are we putting boundaries up in order to avoid a hard conversation, or are we putting systems into place or doing business in certain ways in order to avoid having difficult conversations in person? Like, kind of like using them almost as like a, uh, a way out of something difficult or uncomfortable. And I ended up responding to this, and I shared that I don't necessarily believe that there is anything wrong with avoiding, um, uncomfortability and setting up those boundaries, as long as you're doing it in a professional way that actually gets the message across and protects you as a human being, but also serves your client well at the same time. Which brought him to want to have me come on and do a Instagram Live conversation with him.

And we also brought in my friend, my dear, beloved Katie Schoenrock, to be able to share her perspective as well. Particularly, in this episode, we also touch a- a- on a little bit of the differences between our perspectives a- around boundaries when it comes to the difference between being a salon team stylist versus a salon suite owner, or being completely independent, and how the differences matter and how they affect your decisions, and, um, what may be important to take in consideration. So, I hope that you enjoy this episode. Definitely some great perspectives and some things to hear about.

If you're ready to get into it, then let's go. Starting to talk about respect and bending over backwards, I- I posed a cheeky question, uh, because I've seen people s- you know, come up with policies, and one specific is don't pre-book. Oh. So, I posed the thing out there and I was like, wait a minute, are people just trying to avoid, uh, that d- 'cause I hear people talking, "I just w- I don't wanna have the conversation when I wanna raise my prices."

Right. "I don't wanna have that conversation when I wanna go on vacation," and I was thinking, I- I- I- I just don't get it. Like, I don't- I don't... And so, and then I posed the question, are people doing this to avoid difficult conversations?

And like you said, your strength is maintaining boundaries. All right, so one of the comments was, um, uh, she said that, "I think boundaries are more of a way for clients to actually respect what I do as my actual job and not fun. I have to set a very strict boundary with last minute cancellations and it's a very difficult conversation to have. Clients don't respect what we do enough to pay us properly.

They want us to bend over backwards, and at times, we will, but it's a matter of respect. This is my job, how I feed myself and pay my bills. Doing hair is fun, but it's also a career." So this person, uh, she owns her own suite, so, um, just to give some context.

One, what- what- what do you- I- let's talk about this. Let's talk about respect- Yeah. and bending over backwards. What are your...

What are your thoughts on this? Well, for me, what comes up is, I think, philosophically, whether it be in your business or even in your personal life, I think it's difficult to... and can be a very big uphill battle to expect other people to change for you or, like, know these things automatically. Like, a lot of these people, like, don't understand or even think or- or- I don't know how we could expect them to even realize, like how much of a dent that can put into our paychecks, or how that could feel, disrespectful to us, when we haven't been communicative upfront about that.

But I don't even think that we need to be communicative upfront about how this is my paycheck, and if you cancel on me then I lose all this money. It's like, that's none of their business, first off, and it's not gonna really change any behavior besides for in a negative and forceful way. It's- I- I think it's- it- it can put a bad taste in people's mouths, and I think that, like, when we post on our Instagram stories and we, like, start to talk about these last minute cancellations and we start to, like, complain about them and, like, educate our clients about how much that impacts us, I think it just creates a negative reputation and it turns people off. Particularly, also when it comes to, like, when people have real human experiences and emergencies and last minute situations.

Like, you as a human being, as a service provider, you may one day have a day where you need to cancel an appointment because you're sick, your child had to go to the frickin' hospital, or what- whatever it may be, or you made a simple mistake as a human being. And so, how can you expect every single one of your clients to be absolutely perfect and never have mistakes or emergency situations when you as a human being, that will happen to you one day? And I think it's important to think, like, to remember that, like, being a good human is doing good business. And instead of focusing on, like, trying to change other people's behaviors, how about we figure out how we can take responsibility for our own businesses and how we've set up the policies and our systems and our communication to reduce that behavior as much as we possibly can in the first place?

So, I'm a really big firm believer in, I don't love anybody charging anything for a cancellation fee. I don't love, like, you know, even taking deposits per se. I love a card on file and I love making sure that you actually do have policies in place, and there's multiple things that you can do to reduce the last minute cancellations and no-shows. But when it comes to actually charging a fee or communicating these things in kind of a negative way, or like a semi-educational way, I just think that it's counteractive and it doesn't really help you as far as your long-term success and your reputation goes.

Gotcha. So, I- I would- I would definitely agree with all that. But, you know, I'm a salon stylist. I like to approach these conversations like, I don't know what it's like being in a suite.

Yeah. So, like, for you- for everything you just said, I'm in a salon, I feel like, you know, salons have the benefit of a lot of... Well, not all salons, but in my experience, my experience is salons have the benefit of foot traffic. Right.

Uh, they- they have the benefit of, you know, the consumer behavior of best salon near me- Mm-hmm. uh, salons near me, Google results sh- showing up the salon, you knows, are at the top of the list, at the right-hand side where the maps are. Uh, when it comes to keeping appointments and keep- and being on time- Mm-hmm. um, for me, it's always been like, you know, you give a person a chance.

If I'm late... If I have the time, I'll take them, and, um, and I'll say, "Well, hey, we got the time." But-And when they're late and I don't have the time, I will just be like, "Unfortunately, this time, I don't have the time. If I had the time, I would, but I can't."

Yep. And, uh, when a repeat customer comes in, I too will do what you're saying. I'll be like, "Hey, uh, may-"... Hopefully they didn't get in a car accident.

Of course. You know? Hopefully, hopefully there's not something going on in their life that they can't tell me about. And, um, but if it's a repeat offender, then I, uh, then I'll be like, "Hey, you know, just so you know, this has been going on a l-...

This is, this is not the first time- Yep. this has happened." Yup. "And, uh, we do have a cancellation policy, uh, and it w- I- it will need, it will need to be enforced next time, so just-" Yup.

"... to give you a heads up." And, uh, but, like, I feel like that, the benefit, the benefit is that I can just send them to the front desk and tell the front desk to press that button. So, so, like, what I'm trying to understand is, um, you know, like, like, the money that you're losing, if it's just you, and you, you know, I mean, the money I lose is just me too.

Right. But, like I said, new customer acquisition, uh, uh- Absolutely. process, new customers aren't, aren't gonna be, you know, I don't think, as difficult, but, I mean, that's just my own experience. Could you res- talk on anything I just said?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of what you said. I, that's... So with everything that I say, like, I wanna make it very clear that, like, you should have the...

I do believe you need to have the policies in place, and you n-... There are so many things you can do to mitigate the last-minute cancellations and no-shows in the first place, right? Like, there's a million things you can do, um, that people don't really do. And a lot of it comes down to the pre-visit experience and making sure that you're creating an experience that nobody wants to miss out on, which is the number one most, like, unheard of, unpracticed thing to do.

Um, like, I, what I teach in my programs is, like, when a new client gets booked with you for the first time, they get an automated welcome email sequence that gets them really excited and ready to go. Like, for me, for example, I don't know about you, I think this is a pretty shared universal human experience. When I'm really excited about something and when I'm shown that the value in an experience is gonna be really cool, I will not miss it for the world. I will cancel everything to be able to go there.

So for example, I just bought a pair of skis, like, uh, this past winter season, and I, like, had to wait, like, a couple of days for them to attach the bindings to them to go pick them up, and I knew that, like, my pickup day was on Thursday, and so I, like, canceled everything I possibly could to get them as soon as possible, you know? And so when you have people who are so excited for your experience and when you've created that perceived value in the pre-visit experience, number one, it's gonna make somebody not want to cancel on you in the first place. And then having those policies and making sure that they're communicated and agreed to upfront and in- before they visit, and then also, I'm a big believer in having somebody read and agree to your cancellation policy every single time they come to see you as well too. And so that way it's a consistent reminder of what your boundaries are.

Now, when it comes to, like you said, like, lateness for example, where it's like, this is just a circumstance where I, unfortunately, am not gonna be able to serve you because I don't have time and I have five other clients today who are gonna need my time and I'm not gonna wanna run behind for them, right? That is just you setting a boundary to be able to not disservice that, do a disservice to that person, because at the end of the day, you having boundaries in place as a business owner, you having systems, processes, et cetera, et cetera, is going to allow you to show up better and bigger for your clients, because you have created an environment and you created self-respect for yourself and your clients in which you can show up and give them what they need. If you are running 15, 20 minutes behind because you took a client that was running 15, 20 minutes behind, you're gonna be rushing on them, you're gonna be out of breath, and you're gonna give them a half-assed service, and that is not what we want to do. And that's disrespectful to every other person who comes after that client after that appointment who is showing up on time, right?

So you, I completely agree with that. There's gonna be certain points where, yes, you can be as accommodating as possible when it makes sense for you, but at certain points you do have to say no literally just because you will not be able to serve that person to the best standard. And a lot of that, a lot of boundaries and the way that I, I recommend philosophically approaching them and getting comfortable with them too, is instead of thinking about them as selfish things that you're doing, think about them h- think about them as things that you are putting into place to be able to serve your clients better. Because if you are always saying yes to everything and you are overworking yourself and you're disrespecting yourself, then you're not gonna be able to respect the client and give them everything that they need.

So, like- Yep. I would agree that having the foundation of working in a team salon, whether that be, or a multi-person salon, whether that even be booth rental or employees, right, you, you naturally are gonna have more foot traffic, you're naturally gonna have a larger amount of interest and, um, reach just organically because of the nature of that. And so therefore, yes, like, clients and having new clients and retaining them and having s- kind of a little bit more scarcity an- around the money that you're making and also the clients that you have is definitely a little bit stronger for independent stylists. And, like you said earlier, you, it, you do n- it's only you.

Like, you are the only person who can handle these circumstances. You can't hand it off to the receptionist to handle that circumstance or even a manager to handle that circumstance, right? And so it does become a little bit more difficult and it does become a little bit more scarcity mindset when it comes to suite owners, and that's why I like to teach how we can serve boundaries but do it in the most professional way possible, because it'll make you more confident in doing it and it will hopefully create the most h- the highest probability for a great outcome, whether they leave you or not, you know, um, to mitigate getting a bad review even if you are letting somebody go, or even if you do have to enforce something, right? Still maintaining your reputation.

But at the end of the day, though, if the problem or the thought is...Like, "Oh, I want to keep these clients as much as I possibly can, and so I'm going to just say yes to everything, and I'm not going to respect myself and therefore not be able to serve this person." If that's the mindset, then that's not a retention or boundary issue, that's a marketing issue. Like, you, as an independent business owner, you need to understand that because you do not have the natural organic flow of new client acquisition, you need to have a marketing strategy in place that is going to make you confident that if you lose somebody, then you are going to be able to replace that person.

And, you know, I talk to a lot of f- so- salon suite franchisees. I recently just talked to one, like, three weeks ago who asked me to come in and make, like, a business development education program for their tenants. And I was asking them, I was like, "Well, before you sign, th- before you give out these leases, are you screening these people and asking them what is your business plan to make it so you are getting new clients continuously so that you can raise your prices, so that you can afford your rent increases, so that you can replace those clients when they leave you because of your price increase?" Right?

Like, people don't understand, like, when you are getting into this business, particularly independently, you have to now ha- have the responsibility of making sure that you have a constant bloodline of new clients coming into the door. There needs to be some sort of strategy for that. And so, if there's a lack of confidence or ass- or assuredness that, "If I lose a client, then I'm not gonna be able to replace that spot," then that, then we just need to look at your marketing strategy. We need to figure out why is it that retaining this one client means that you are gonna have to screw yourself over and maybe screw your other clients over just to make this one person happy and want to stay with you.

Because, at the end of the day, that's just gonna create more and more negative impacts than it is gonna be positive impact. I love this conversation. Thank you, uh, so much. Okay, so we got a couple of comments.

Uh, Boss Lady Salon who's, uh, we're gonna about to bring her on and, bring them on in a m- in a moment. I love Katie so much. She is like, she's the, she's the fucking bo- she's a badass. Awesome.

She is like so cool and you will love hearing from her. Good. She's amazing. Good.

Well, she says, "They could also remove the card on file or have an expired file on car- card on file." Yes. Uh, that's very on point. I mean, anytime that I have a subscription that I don't, I can't figure out or don't want to spend the time figuring out how to cancel, I just report my card stolen.

Literally. No, oh my God, I literally just lost my wallet, like, two weeks ago, which I've never done before. I'm like such like a wallet, keys, phone person, like always checking my pockets. Completely lost my wallet, could not find it anywhere.

So I just replaced all of my cards, and I was like, "This really sucks, but I'm gonna be able to figure out all of my subscriptions that I'm paying for that I'm forgetting about." And see if I want to remo- re- renew them or not. But, I also did want to say, because you brought it up, yes, um, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the times banks will not allow you to charge and be able to, uh, and not, uh, and y- and not let your client win like a chargeback or something like that. And that a lot of the times has to do with your state laws.

Like, when it comes to you charging deposits or having a card on file or then charging that cancellation fee, you need to check your local laws and your local municipality and also your state, because a lot of the times charging for a service that was not rendered can be illegal and like not s- like a, a, a practice that should be done. Um, however, what I, for what I've, from my understanding, and this is purely administrative advice and not le- like official legal advice. Again, you have to check your own laws wh- for whoever it, uh, is listening to this. Normally, require, having somebody put a card on file is okay, but then actually charging that fee when there was no service rendered is something where you can get into the mud a little bit.

Now, when it comes to like, let's say, that there were a circumstance where you did absolutely have to charge the cancellation fee, or like it really was called for, and I, to me, I think there's very rare instances where that happens, like where there's a complete lack of communication from the other person, they're completely no-showing you, they're completely ghosting you. It's like, "Okay, well, then if you're not gonna respect me, then I'm just gonna charge you this fee that you agreed to." Right? Um, in that case, that's why I always say, like, having somebody read and sign your policies is so powerful, and even every single visit, which I know sounds crazy, but the way that I teach my students to do it, it's actually great, and it makes the experience even better.

Um, uh, then you have multiple PDF files, if you're doing it digitally, that you can send to this bank or payment processor to prove that this person has agreed to this policy multiple times, which will make your case stronger. Um, and so, therefore, like, having those upfront systems and policies and having people agree to them is really helpful if you have to charge the fee and if you have to put evidence against a chargeback. But, again, you have to be careful about charging that card on file, because if there was not a service rendered, it may be illegal and not, uh, allowed in your state for you to be able to actually charge it. Th- that's super huge, because, no, I've never heard anyone say that, and I, now that you say that, I feel like I've heard that not in our world, just in another- Right.

like somewhere else. So I'm glad you said that, because, um, people are out there giving advice, and, uh, it might, it's important that people check their local laws. Okay, HairByPOV says, "I keep hearing about credit cards being held when booking. Is it a big thing when people don't show in or cancel?

Like, does it happen often?" Um, my experience, and you can share your experience, um, is that people, only new clients are known in my, or for me, or for me personally, uh, I only know of new clients canceling, and that's regular. Uh, but I would say that my clients don't cancel, not last minute anyway. Like, if they move, I have clients that will move, but they'll usually at least three days out.

Right. Which, for me, is enough to fill, refill those books. Now, maybe if you're in a suite, you might, well, kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, you might have more like a week-long period to fill a book or something. But, um, but, yeah, I don't know.

Do you... What is your experience? Is it your experience in working with people too that, like, they, this is, like, a very common thing that happens? Yes.

And I think that it's become more, it's just only become more and more and more and more prevalent since the pandemic.Um, I think the, the... at the beginning of the pandemic when we lifted quarantine, people were... a lot of people were working from home, and a lot of people had a ton more flexibility in being able to come in at whatever time, whatever day, and they were a lot more reliable at the very beginning of the, the end of our quarantine.

Um, but as time has moved on, we have seen massive, huge return to work, uh, policies, in which a lot of people are now having to work again in an office nine to five, Monday through Friday, and going back to the intense normal everyday routine of bringing their kids to soccer practice, and sports, and then people just having these super busy w- uh, weeks and days, right? And I think that we had a moment in, in time, particularly after quarantine, where we got really used to the nature of people not canceling on us very often and just coming in, and, like, everybody being super flexible, to now us really getting back into the intense, like, daily routine of things. And I mean, I think that people are working even harder and people are much even busier than even pre-pandemic than they are now... than now more than they were before pandemic.

Um, and so, like, I think that we got used to that, and now our perception of what it may look like may feel a lot more intense, but I also do believe on paper as well, like, more literally, without the emotions or the feelings of it in the comparison, I do believe that it does happen across the board, whether it be for new clients or existing clients, a fair bit for a lot of people nowadays, just because of people's, like, daily crazy schedules. And this is where one of the conversations about pre-booking comes into play, right? This is where... This, like, the pe-...

This is why a lot of that kind of conversation can come up sometimes, is because I think that people will really bank on somebody pre-booking for a three-month-ahead appointment, right? And, like, versus, like, a lot of our traditional bread-and-butter hairdressing, a lot of the times for, like, our color retouches is every four weeks, right? So four weeks from today is, like, nice and predictable. Like, it's like, I know what's going on for the most part in four weeks from today, for the most part.

I don't know what the hell's going on in my life in three months from today, right? And I think that our clients don't really know that either, and I think that's whet... that's why the whole pre-booking or rethinking pre-booking conversation comes up when it comes to reducing last minute cancellations and no-shows, because it's like, if you're kind of pressuring somebody to book three months out and you don't even know your schedule, they don't even know your schedule, how can you expect them to, like, fully be absolutely committed to that time and date, right? Right And so I think when we talk about pre-booking, it's not necessarily, like, a hard and fast rule.

It's like, w-... for the particular nature of the business that you're doing, um, the particular frequency of visit of the majority of your clients that you have, like, how can we make it so you have systems around that that are gonna mitigate any behavior or circumstances that you don't want to have? So in that circumstance, like, maybe we only pre-book people out eight weeks from today and no further than that, right? And then we rely on our marketing in between the appointments to keep us top of mind and to remind that person that, hey, I exist.

I'm your beauty professional. Hopefully, we've planted seeds before they even left the door of when you... you'd want them to come back. I have my students set up automated emails that send them custom reminders for, like, when they w- would need to come back and when they recommend they would come back, what they would need to book for, et cetera, et cetera.

Um, so I just, like... 'cause I know that you talked about pre-booking in the beginning. Like, I just wanna touch on, like, that's where I think sometimes that conversation c- can come up for these, these types of things O- okay, that's good. Um, yeah, I've seen that, I've seen that, uh, you know, instead of no pre-booking, just a certain distance out, and, um, and what you're saying makes sense.

I g- I guess it is, you know, for my clientele, um, these people are this type A schedule type of people. So I think that's why I haven't seen... I haven't had this same experience that seems more prevalent outside of, um... you know, it could be geography, like where I'm located.

Or the nature of the majority of the services that you're doing, too. Like, there's a lot of people who- Yeah. like, are curly hair specialists, right, or there's a lot of people who are, like, low-maintenance color specialists who are doing a lot of the same thing. Like, the majority of their clientele are these people who are, like, lower-maintenance clients, right?

And so, like, curly haired people- Right. o- oftentimes are not coming every four weeks or every eight weeks. Like, they are- Right. stretching their appointments out, and same with, like, low-maintenance c-...

like balayage clients, right? And so, like, for those types of people, which are becoming more and more prevalent as stylists are starting to, like, more niche down and finding that to be attractive, for those types of people, these types of policies may be helpful for them. But a lot of the times when we have a little bit of a mixed bag of things, even rethinking pre-booking could be great for that. But, you know, a- again, it may just depend on the, the type of services that you are doing majoritively.

He says, "I think connotation behind pre-booking matters. I usually tell my clients it's better to have the appointment booked in case the books fill up, but they can always move or reschedule it." What do you... I say that, but I feel like, I feel like...

I'm wondering if that's because I'm in a salon and the stuff that I said earlier that kind of informs my thinking. Mm-hmm. Uh, what... From...

What would you say to... about that? I- I'm kind of neutral to that. I, I, I mean, for me, like, I think that's kind of setting yourself up for failure almost, um, because if you're, like, encouraging somebody who's not sure of a date and time, then you are gonna increase the likelihood of somebody possibly just not taking that date and time seriously and not taking your time seriously.

It's, uh... Like, I feel like that could represent your time and the value of your time as something that is flexible, and that's something that somebody can just screw around with. Like, I think that that's... could p- potentially be the type of messaging that could make somebody get resentful of people when they, you know, take you up on that, right?

When you offer that type of- I'm worried it- ... advice. you would say something like that, 'cause, um, that's the first thought that comes to my head, but I say it literally to everybody. Um, I, I literally say...

Yeah, I do say it to everybody, and we have, like, these automated, uh, texts and emails, uh, they get s- both, uh, saying that their appointment's coming up- Yeah. and, uh, I would say that, you know, I've had a few people cancel last minute.But it's mostly, mostly they'll just move the appointment when they get that message. Um, so I think, I think going to...

If I was, if I'm gonna, if I was li- on this call listening, and I'm lis- taking your, listen to you, I would interpret what you said, uh, to apply to this thinking, um, even though you didn't say this. Uh, I would, I would extract everything you said and, and make the, uh, assumption or take the action where I would set up... If I need a week to fill a, fill a- an appointment- Exactly. then I would set my policies to be, "I need a week notice for cancellation."

Yes. "I need..." And then I'm gonna have one-week reminders- Yes. coming f- for you to confirm your appointment.

And then, uh, and then I... That's how I would handle this scenario based on everything we just talked about. This topic. 100%, yes.

I think that people forget the reason why we have the parameter or, like, the timeframe of the policy, right? Like, the timeframe of, like, 24 hours, you get charged this, 48 hours, you get charged this. It's because the, the, that, that timeframe should be relevant to how, how long would it take you to refill this spot. But- Totally.

on the flip side of this, right, now, on the flip side of this- Yes. because you talk to a lot of students and, like, you talk to a lot of people who are just building from the scratch, you know, when it comes to that, like, you just have to take things as they come. Like, you cannot be too strict with what you got going on. Like, you, uh, you will do not have any sort of strong enough foundation to be able to have...

Like, like, because that type of person is not gonna be able to fill in that spot very easily within a reasonable timeframe of notice of somebody to tell you that they're canceling on you. Like, anything past seven days is just kind of ridiculous, I feel like, in my opinion. Yeah. And so it's like, you can...

And b- and, but this is where I also believe as well, at the same time, like, you can have the policy, right? You can have the policy, you can make people aware of the policy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna hold every single person accountable to that policy every single time, or at least give somebody that first warning before it actually happens, and also be super considerate of the details of the circumstance. If somebody is communicative, if somebody is apologetic, and if it's an extraneous circumstance, we should give people some leeway. Actually have a rescheduling policy now, and it means if you've rescheduled the same appointment twice- Mm-hmm.

that third time, you now have to put a deposit down that's nonrefundable. Yes. So that way, if you're a person that continuously makes appointments, but you don't know your schedule, you don't write it down, you get that 20, uh, 48-hour confirmation, and you're consistently rescheduling that, even if it's rescheduling, like, we all know within 48 hours, like, you really can't fill those appointments, especially if it's like a weekday midweek- Yeah. uh, with people going back to work.

So, um, I started implementing that, and I've noticed a huge drop in people rescheduling. Mm. And so it really does help just having the policy in place, because the people who respect you are gonna follow that policy regardless, and the people who don't are probably gonna be the people you're gonna end up blessing and releasing in the future. Yeah.

And I've definitely noticed that as a studio renter, in my personal opinion, um, I feel as though the clients tend to take you a little more seriously. Um, a lot of my clients I've had since the very beginning. I have clients from 18 years ago. But it's like when I came to my own space, it's like something changed in their mind, like, "Oh, she owns this business.

This is something that she takes very seriously. It's not just, 'Oh, I'm doing hair,' anymore. I'm a business owner.'" Yeah.

Hm. Um, but then I started working with Hunter and getting some of the things automated. Um, one thing that I do is when a new client reaches out and schedules an appointment, they receive an email from me that actually gets five fun facts about me. And this is super cool.

People actually respond to it with facts about themselves- Yeah. because one of the biggest things of going to a new hairstylist is you're scared. Yeah. You're nervous, especially if you've had trauma.

It's like, "I, I don't know." They're gonna be more likely to either no-show or cancel on you, because they're nervous to come to you. True. Whereas when you have something like this in place beforehand, they get that, they see, "Oh, hey, look, she likes iced coffee like I do."

"Oh, she had a dog," you know, then it's so much more of an icebreaker. When they come in, they already feel like they kinda know you- Yeah. and it's a little bit easier to start that process of a new relationship with a client. Yeah.

I have a qu- I have a question. So, um, I have talked to folks who are in suites, and I've been trying to read, uh, the comments when people are talking about the suite life. And when I, what I'm reading... And I understand that social media has a tendency to bubble up the negative stuff to the top, and, uh, maybe the people who are having positive vibes are not posting as much.

So, like, I, I un- I, I, I... This is a part of why I like these conversations, because it kind of helps put, like, my research into some real, real context, um, from real people. So, uh, what I, what I seem to see and hear is that people feel like as soon as they take away the boundary of the boss, or the manager, or the front desk, then all of a sudden, they're like nickel and, I hear this, "nickel and diming", uh, "me." Or, like, we started off this thing with like, "They need to respect this.

This is my job. I'm not just doing this for fun." And I've also seen people say that, uh, people think that they can argue with me. I mean, I guess that goes back to...

I think it has a lot more to do with, like, policies and price. Um, would you speak to that, your experience, like, uh, either one of you? Sure, absolutely. Um, yeah, I, I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I think that, um...

When you start in a studio, you have to almost put those boundaries in place right away, because if you don't and you kinda backtrack- Yeah. then, yes, you will get walked all over. Um, you know, fortunately for me, I met Hunter during the pandemic, um, on lockdown. And so basically when we came back from lockdown, I put these things in place, and I think that was easier for clients because not only was it, like, a COVID policy, but then from there on, it's like, okay, this is just how I'm running my business.

Yeah. Oh. Oh. Um, you need to respect that, and if you don't, then, you know- It is what it is.

move along. Um, I think that going back to, like, how you said when you're in your own space, your experience, Katie, has been that you find that people are more respectful. I would say that I've had the same experience. And maybe this experience isn't universal for everybody, and I'm not sure what the difference would be, that could possibly be maybe like you kind of alluded to where it's like we're bringing maybe...

we're bringing our old habits or routines from our old salon that we're leaving, and we're bringing it into our own business, and we're not, like, firming things up to be as prepared for having boundaries and getting the... and, and creating the best environment for the best behavior and mutual respect possible, right? That could possibly be a situation. Or, maybe, I don't know, are you running your own business with the utmost professionalism, with a great customer experience and customer service the same way that any other business would?

Because if you're not delivering on the value that you're charging for, if you're not giving the value that you're charging for in the way that this person is viewing it as, right? Like, somebody is spending money with you, and so you may be a human being who got into this suite to have all this freedom and be able to chill and do whatever you want to do, but that does not mean that you're not gonna still be running a business. And if you are going to be... uh, and if you do the work and you show your clients the effort of creating a relationship with them and that you actually give a shit about them and you care about what you're doing here, and if you treat your own business like a business, then that's gonna make your clients feel like they wanna treat you seriously as well too.

And I think that that may be the difference between somebody like Katie who is fucking kicking ass in a suite, and, and, and growing and putting things into place and taking really good care of her clients and creating such a beautiful big, bad, strong brand, right, versus salon suite owners who get into it who don't really realize that you are opening up a whole motherfucking business and you're gonna be having to deliver a really great experience if you want to make this actually work for you and grow in a really beautiful way and get mutual respect from the clients that you're working with. If you don't treat your own business like a business, then how are you gonna expect anybody else to treat your business like a business and take it seriously, right? Like Yeah. if you don't respect yourself, how do you expect somebody else to respect yourself, you know?

Um, so, yeah. And, uh, uh, I also... I talk about this often how in business, uh, as we are emotional human beings, I am very much an emotional human being, and I unfortunately, like, I... because of what I do, because of how much I care about what I do, and because it's a really large part of my identity, I get very wrapped up in my business.

And there's thing, things that happen within it can very much control my narrative very quickly and remove me from my logical brain and put me in my emotional one. And I... a lot of the time, what I, what I see is pe- one person will do one thing or one client will say one thing, and then, uh, well, that's negative, and you'll have 10 other clients who say the absolute opposite of that, but we will... we are primarily, right, we are n- are wired to focus on the one negative thing, and then we create this entire narrative around it that, oh, this one client does not like online booking, therefore online booking sucks and all of my clients hate online booking and it's never gonna work for me, so therefore I have to shut it all down, right?

So then we allow, like, this, this, this minor thing or this one person to create this entire world inside of our brain, and then it creates this, these, like, untrue truths that aren't data-driven, and then therefore we will go on our stories and be like, "Bitch, if you cancel on me, you are screwing me over," et cetera, et cetera. So I think it's very important to look at everything very analytically. I, I, I, I, I preach this all the time, I try to practice it the most I possibly can in our businesses, although it's... i- in my business, although it's hard to instead of focusing on one person saying one wrong thing or focusing on one instance that went wrong and then making it the narrative of like, this is happening to me, you know, all the time, it's like, this was one circumstance, and do we really even have to take any action upon it right now?

End of transcript. © 2024 Hunter Donia LLC.