Can You Grow a Clientele Without Social Media?

Hello, my friends. Today, we are going to be asking the question on everyone's mind. I've been going on tour, and I've been doing these in-person events recently. And at the beginning of the class, I normally ask, like, "What are you trying to get out of today?"

Or, "What's going on in your business right now?" Or, "How are you feeling?" And everybody's like, "I fucking hate social media. I'm fucking over it."

And I mean, like, we've been saying that. That's our biggest pain point for a while now, right? So today, we're gonna be answering the question, can we grow our clientele without social media? Can we ditch this thing and still be successful in getting new client requests?

So we're gonna be fucking answering that. And today, I have Jodie Brown with me, as per usual. What's up, Jodie Brown? Hey, Hunter.

I'm really excited to dive into this one. This is a juicy topic that I think has been on a lot of people's mind. Yeah. And you're like social media queen, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to say as well, and what you have to ask me.

But, Jodie, would you mind giving a little bit of intro- introduction of who you are and why you are here today? Yeah, absolutely. My name is Jodie Brown. I am a marketing agency owner, um, former hairstylist.

I worked behind the chair for 15 years until I stepped away in 2020. My mom is a salon owner, so I've been in this industry my whole life, and I'm here to help ask the questions that are on stylist minds when it comes to what's happening in our industry right now, because as Hunter said, I am social media obsessed. I'm probably the one person who actually enjoys it still. Um, because it allows me to really keep a pulse on what people are asking and, you know, what conversations are going on in the comments, how stylists are feeling, how clients are feeling.

And so, I'm here to kind of be that voice today. You know what? I hate to get ahead of ourselves, and I promise you guys we're gonna answer the question. But I love that you said, "I still love social media."

'Cause you know what? I fucking love social media too. You want to know why? 'Cause it fucking helps me grow my business.

Mm-hmm. Because it fucking, like... And I promise you guys today, I'm not gonna... This is not necessarily an episode that's gonna be like, "Use social media.

That's the best way to grow your clientele." That's not what this is. But I am gonna rant for just a second before we get into it. We are so lucky to be in a day and age where we have a completely free tool to market ourselves as small businesses.

Like, 15, 20 years ago, hairstylists who just had to build out of nothing, like, just from asking friends and family, who just had to wait and be patient, like, they did not have the same privilege that we have now, right? And so, I- I- I encourage you, my friend, to look at this as something that you are privileged to have the opportunity to have access to. Like, the fact that you have this opportunity is so powerful, and it's not to be taken for granted. And you know what?

This i- I think it's just so important to... It is a privileged conversation. Like, genuinely, like, if you talk to people who built their clientele, like, tens of thousands of years ago, right? Yeah.

Right? I'll age myself. That was me. Yeah.

Who are like, "Oh, I didn't have the social media back in my day. I could not grow-" Mm-hmm. "... as quickly.

I couldn't mak- make these six figures." And now they see, you know, the younger people who just kind of a little bit get it, or are you listening to this, who are taking advantage of it, they're fucking jealous. They're pissed off. Mm-hmm.

They're like, "What the hell?" You know? So just... I- I'm glad that you said that, that you still love social, because I fucking love it too.

Don't love what I have to do with it- Mm-hmm. but I love that it's an opportunity that we take advantage of, and that I have the opportunity to use, because it's... I would not be where I am today without it. It's how I grew my clientele to three and a half months book solid with services that I fucking love- Mm-hmm.

and it's how, a big part of how I grow this business with my education and how I serve you guys as well too. So let's just, like... Just, just a little moment of appreciation for social media. I think that's so important too, because I, like I said, I'm gonna age myself a little bit, but I have been in the situation where I've had to stay, as a very young stylist, in a salon with management and an owner that did not treat me well, because I had a clientele, right?

Yep. And there wasn't that opportunity. And so, I do think, like, it does allow us, as stylists, a lot more autonomy, a lot more control- Yes. over our careers, whether you're independent or not.

Yeah. Like, I first built it in a commission salon. So, I think that's a really good, you know, um, measure to kind of add in before we get into this conversation. But the first question that I think we need to answer, Hunter, is what does growing without Instagram actually require?

Like, if we're like, "You know what? I'm shutting it down. I am... It's not worth the headache.

It's not worth the... You know? I- I just hate it. I'm not doing it anymore."

What would we have to do instead? This all goes back to your foundational marketing strategy. Okay, so this entire podcast series that we're doing these past couple weeks, right? And this is an episode that's included in that.

It's all about the different departments in your business. And so, this episode, obviously, we're attacking the marketing department. We're talking about a specific question or, or possibility within it, right? And so, when we look at the marketing department, the number that we're looking for is new client requests, right?

That's, like, majoritively what we're looking for. You could argue that retention is kind of a part of that, but I believe that client experience is a little bit more, more important and lends well better to that. So, that's the number we're looking at, is new client requests, right? So, the point is growing the clientele.

And in order for you to grow the clientele, you have to do the same thing that every other fucking business and industry has to do. Every other business and industry has to work w- worry about marketing. It just is what it is, right? Name one Fortune 500 company that does not have a clear strategic marketing plan in place.

You can't, right? Right. And so, a lot of the time, I'll ask hairstylists, like, "Well, do you have a plan? Like..."

what's the actual plan, you know? Do you have a documented plan in place that is strategic, something that you can follow, that is designed and proven to work and consistently get these clients to come and request you, right? And so when we take a step back and we look at what that foundational plan is, that's where we have to decide the channels in which we are going to grow our clientele. However, what's required is that you are targeting a specific type of person that is going to likely not find you or be most likely to find you through cli- through social media.

Mm-hmm. This is the person that's going to be most likely to find you through other channels or local networking, right? And the efforts that you are willing to put in have to match that person's consumer behavior. Because if not, then you're going to be showing up in places either that you don't want to be showing up, um, or showing up in places where your ideal client, uh, is not gonna find you.

So it all comes down, back to setting up that marketing strategy and that plan, which I walk my students through step by step. And a big part of that is doing market research and deciding like, who is it that I want to attract more of? And then researching who is this person. You want to know everything about this person.

You want to know what their patterns are and where they'd be most likely to show up, where you could also show up, and then have messaging in place or put efforts into place that is going to make this person want to trust you, follow you, and work with you. And so here's the good news, bad news. It's possible, yes, but you need to have a plan in place that is going to make it so it will actually work for you. And the unfortunate news is that a lot of the time, eh, and this really depends, it's, this is, there's still a broad spectrum, right?

But a lot of the time, the people who we are ideally trying to attract, furthermore, the effort that we're willing to put in actually aligns pretty well with marketing on social media or Instagram or whatever it may be. Because, okay, the alternative is leaning into local network strategies. Right. And honestly, a lot of that stuff, maybe you love that stuff, right?

A lot of that stuff though, like if you want to go above and beyond and make it work in 2025, a lot of that stuff requires a fuck-ton of work and working through a lot of discomfort and, like, having, like, scary conversations and, like, sh- like, spending a lot of time, like physical time, like your body physically being in places where it maybe wouldn't have otherwise been. So, for example, like, efforts that help you grow in a, in a way where local networking is going to be the way that you grow your clientele, besides for a referral program, and we'll talk about that, a lot of the time it will require you collaborating with small businesses, so, in your local area. So you'll g- you're gonna have to walk into those small businesses, maybe purchase something to create a little bit of a rapport, uh, or some trust, create a relationship with that person, awkwardly talk to them about things, introduce yourself, and nurture the relationship between you and that small business. Um, it's g- it requires doing models a lot of the time.

It requires doing free work, um, because you can have models who are in, uh, the same businesses or places where your ideal client is also, and so you want that model wearing your work, um, because you'll be more likely to get organic referrals. Um, and it requires you maybe showing up to certain events, um, or getting up, involved in certain events or sponsoring certain events as well, too, um, and, and, and, and doing a lot of physical labor, what you already are doing full-time behind the chair. Right. So, I mean, maybe this is building on top of my, you know, the beginning of this conversation where I said we should be grateful for social media, because in 2025, like, doing all of that stuff is required to be able to grow...

Mm-hmm. in a local networking situation, right? Uh, if you really want to take it seriously and if you really want to make it that, your main effort of growing or way of growing, and that's a lot of fucking work, and a lot of the time, it's really uncomfortable for a majority of people. If you're super extroverted, though, if you're super confident, um, and if you have, if you, eh, you still need to understand sales strategy, and you need to have a plan in place to be able to make those efforts work for you.

Um, if you're that type of person, then this could work really well for you, and simultaneously, if your client is the type of person who's gonna be most likely to come to you with those efforts, then this could be great news for you. You do not have to use social media almost at all. It's still a good idea to use it, even if your main point is going to be local networking, because people nowadays, no matter who it is, a lot of the time is gonna want to look for an online portfolio or reputation of what you have. Um, they're gonna want to get a better idea for you because they just have the option to.

People are used to, in today's day and age, having the option to do a deeper dive into the service providers or the businesses that they're going to do work with. I mean, would you ever go to a tattoo artist that you heard of by word of mouth or from a person who got a really cool tattoo, would you ever go to that person without checking out their Instagram or their website first? Just because your, your friend got a great tattoo, and absolutely the fuck not, right? So it's still required, but maybe it's not the main way that you get the clientele, and, uh, and maybe you don't have to be as consistent or strategic with it, but then there still has to be a lot of other efforts that are going to make it work for you.

Um, I could keep going, but I'm gonna take a pause right here, 'cause I don't want to get too off track, and that's exactly why Jody's here. So I'm gonna pass it back over to Jody. So I want to follow up on this. I think this is a really good conversation, and what it sounds like to me is that what essentially you're describing is you're not necessarily ditching social media, but you're ch- you're kind of changing its position in your funnel.

Right. So it's kind of more going into that nurture...... part of your funnel versus, like, the first encounter or that awareness phase, right? Yes.

So my question to you would be, we've spent a lot of time in this series. I feel like we keep coming back to this idea of big companies are, you know, spending a lot of money to get in front of our clients and we're doing, you know, there's, there's constant bombardment of all these different options. So if you are someone who decides to do a local first strategy, how do you stay top of mind in between? Like, in between that period of meeting someone and then actually booking an appointment and coming into your salon?

So Jodi, what I think you're referring to is when we are talking about, like, a traditional marketing funnel, right? You first have somebody who finds out that you exist, and then in theory, we need to do a little bit more to get them to trust you enough to come and see you in the chair, right? And the beauty about using social media is that maybe you get a follower, right? So, uh, when you get a follower, somebody's going to see your content consistently and that's going to furthermore make them trust you.

We lose that if we're not using social media and we're using maybe more local networking, uh, uh, possibilities, right? Uh, because you just have, like, a word of mouth situation or whatever it might be, and that's where, li- like you said, maybe social media still needs to be a part of the conversation, it's just not... You don't have to be as consistent with it, I guess, or it's just a different place in the funnel now, um, and it's not the main way that you're getting in front of people's faces anymore, but maybe it's still a part of the conversation here. But let's say that it wasn't, right?

Let's say that social media wasn't a part of the conversation, and let's say that we needed to nurture these people who are finding you out and about not on social media in a different way. Uh, what that would look like is, number one, and this doesn't, it does not fucking matter what your platform of choice is or who your ideal client is. Number one is going to be your website. You need a website, and it needs to be good.

Okay? It needs to be really good, and it cannot just, it cannot be your booking site and it cannot just be a place of information. It can't be just a place where somebody clicks the button to book with you. It can't just be the place where you put your prices.

It definitely should not be the place where you just have your policies and a bunch of sh- like, shit that does not do anything to make somebody trust you more. Right? That's the point of the website. It's the place, it's the decision-making place where somebody is going to decide whether or not your price is worth it for them to trust you and spend money with you.

It's going to be the place where they decide that they trust you enough, that you understand them, they feel seen and heard, and you're offering something unique and different and worth it. And what that looks like is having specific words and copy and visuals and images and a flow on your website that speaks really well to a new client who's first landing on your website. So we have to have an effective website, and we teach our students what that looks like within the program, and a lot of the marketing plan that we set up and who you're targeting and the messaging behind that, your specialty, all goes in alignment with what you actually put on your website, and a website that is effective. Because if somebody gets even your business card or somebody hears about you, they're going to google you, no matter what.

Okay? They're still going to look at you online, no matter who it is, unless it's, like, a really, possibly old person who just does not use internet, okay? Um, so, so the website's super important. Another part of this is, is thinking, "How can I capture this person's attention or con- uh, or their, their contact information?

And how can I stay in this person's atmosphere one way or another, right?" So whether that be getting their email, even getting their physical address, I don't know what that looks like for you, my friend, but, but, uh, I know that in our program, we, as, as of right now, we teach a, like, lead magnet strategy, and so if they go on your website, there's, like, this little free resource that they can download in exchange for your email address, and then they opt in with the, with their email address and they get it delivered to their email, and there's a sequence that we teach that is very likely to get this person to want to book with you. Then you have their email address, you are assured that those things are gonna... That your emails are gonna show up in their inbox, versus where social media, you actually lose out on some of that because you never know if the algorithm's gonna show your content or not.

So email is really powerful no matter how you're trying to get new clients into your chair and get them to trust you, um, whether you're using Instagram mainly or not, uh, but in a local networking, uh, conversation where we're not relying on social media, uh, the website's very important and then figuring out how can we maybe capture this person even more and stay in their atmosphere to get them to trust us enough to book the damn appointment, uh, the first time, I think is really powerful and important, uh, in the way that we go about that. So essentially, even if we're, we're predominantly operating with an offline awareness strategy, we still need to be intentional about making sure there's an opportunity to follow up and, and stay top of mind. Right. And to, like, show up more after this person just hears about you, looks at your website once even, like, how can we get back into their faces?

How can we go back into their world and give them another chance or reason to trust us even more, to convince them to book with us? I love that. I do think that this is such an important piece here, because the trust we've, you know, it, it really ties into this general conversation. The trust piece is so important, especially in 2025.

And so with that being said, are there areas, digital, digital strategies or digital platforms outside of our traditional social media? I think for the hair industry, Instagram is the obvious choice a lot of the time. Are there any other platforms that you think stylists should be... Who want to step back a little bit from, from Instagram, for example, where else do you think they should prioritize showing up?

Well, um...I feel like I kind of, maybe ignorantly, don't include Google My Business or Yelp, like, review platforms- Hm. into the conversation when I talk about social media as an umbrella. But to me- Of course.

like, when I say social media, I'm also including those things, right? But if we're talking about, like, non-traditional methods or the thing that we wouldn't normally think about when we say social media, and- Right. those review platforms are a part of that conversation, then, then, yes, then we would wanna make ... Absolutely.

Whether your, whether your social media is the main way or not, I think it's really important or powerful, at least, to additionally focus on, "How can we get reviews on either Yelp or Google My Business?" Personally, I'm a big fan of Google My Business. I think it's much more business-friendly versus, like, the other traditional platforms. Like Yelp, I've had, and I know other stylists have had, really poor experiences with Yelp.

Um, but Google My Business is great, and I have really great review strategy that I teach that is, like, really guaranteed to get you five-star reviews and build up your, uh, your reputation on there. Um, another thing that goes on the backend, though, like let's say that you want your Google My Business to be, like, your main platform, right? Then your website needs to be a big part of that strategy, again, and also the SEO and how often you update your Google My Business platform. Um, the same way that you'd have to update your Instagram on a consistent basis, uh, it, it's still a strategy.

Like, it's not just getting the reviews. It's posting on a consistent basis. It's trying to change as much as you possibly can. It's making sure that you're taking inventory of what the SEO is on your website.

What's working, what's not, is it in alignment with what my ideal clients are searching right now? All of those things. So the reviews, uh, you know, we should be getting reviews no matter what. Should it always be the main thing, or does it always have to be the main thing?

No, and I will just say, like, I've actually had, uh, I've actually had a student before, like before they joined my program, they, like, Googled me a- as they should, and my old hairstylist business showed up, and they're like, "Oh, you only have seven business reviews. You, you only have seven Google My Business reviews. Like, why should I trust you?" And I was like, "Well, I built my entire clientele on social, on Instagram, and I was three and a half months book solid with five new client requests a week."

I didn't really care about Google My Business. I didn't really care about getting reviews right there, right? Uh, but and now, if, if I was really, like, starting from scratch now, I think that I would try to make both of those things a part of my strategy. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary, uh, to do so, I guess you could say.

Right, which I think goes back to that piece of, like, where are your ideal clients prioritizing? What did- Right. they care about, right? Yeah.

So I, I wanna ask you, when it comes to ... I think you've done a really great job of illustrating the different options, maybe, that stylists would have. How ... If someone's listening right now and they're thinking, "Okay, but, ah, like, is it gonna hurt my business to take a step back?"

How would you recommend that a stylist audit how important social media is to their specific business? Um, I hope this answers your question. Uh, I mean, it all goes back to research. Like, I am such a data-based person, and that's the way that I teach, and that's the way that I suggest you run your business.

Because everybody's business is so nuanced, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I could give you, like, one-size-fits-all advice here, but none of it matters unless you're taking your really real circumstances into consideration. And the only way you're gonna know that is if you do research and you have data to work with, because that's gonna tell you what's actually happening, what's actually possible, what the actual strategy should be for your unique business, the unique person you're targeting, the specialty that you have, and the location that you live in, right?

Right. Um, so I think doing research on a consistent basis, maybe even, like, a annual basis, uh, and figuring out where are your ideal clients showing up, how are they interacting with businesses right now. If they were looking for a hairstylist right now, where would they go? What would they search?

What would their words be? How do they describe these things? Because even, like, the definition around the trends or the specialties that you have in a consumer's vision or brain or definition changes, right? Like, I know that, like, balayage was the word a couple years ago, but a lot of hairstylists have pushed for the lived-in color word- Yeah.

instead to describe this. And so clients, although they'll be late to understanding that and probably using that as the most popular phrase for what they're describing, they will then change what they search on a platform, because now they are looking at these looks, we're calling it lived-in, so then they start to learn that this is what I need to search because- Mm-hmm. this is what the stylists are calling it, right? Um, but you're not gonna know that, because in, maybe in a little town, right, like, maybe these clients are still using the word highlights, but maybe in the location that you're in, that's a little bit larger or whatever.

I- uh, wherever the fuck you are, whe- wh- whether it's big or small, right? Your local area, your ideal client specifically, that demographic could be using a completely different language than the one that you would intuitively use. Mm-hmm. And so doing the research is so powerful and important, and that will tell you whether or not social media should still be an integral, consistent part of your strategy or not.

And, like I said in this episode, whether it is the primary part of your strategy or not, I s- do you still believe there should be some sort of small presence, okay? And that doesn't have to be absolutely insane, but there should be something. I love that, and I think it's so important to dive into, that, the fact that things do get more sophisticated. Markets change, and you know, what, what people were using to search for you three years ago may not be the same today.

So, I think that's such an important piece. The last thing I wanna ask you, Hunter, is...If you ... So, I've seen a lot of conversations online about stylists that are, you know, have been in the game a while, and they're like, "But I get referrals all the time, so I don't need to market my business."

So, what would you say to that? Like, do you feel like marketing is something that, you know, that you can just kinda stop doing? Or is it, like, no, this is forever, you need to still be marketing? I have a episode about this.

It's called, uh, How to Prepare or to React to, like, Busy Times in Your Business. It's called something like that. I will do my best to remember to leave the link to that episode in the description of this one. Um, but I ta- I address this, because it is a common thing that I see, uh, where you have so much business that you're so overwhelmed that you're just, like, you're either like, oh, I can take a break with social media because I'm doing just fine.

Or, you feel like if you ... Like, every time you post, you get an overwhelming amount of requests and you can't even handle them or fit them anywhere, so it's like, I don't even wanna post, right? Number one, we have to look at your operations, we have to look at your foundations, and we need to fix that issue, if you are in a space where you can't take on new clients and it's really inconvenient for you to have to handle those requests. We need to f- we need to look at how can we streamline, how can we automate?

We need to adjust your prices, all those things, right? But if it's a circumstance where it's just like ca- I just wanna take a step back 'cause everything's working for me right now, that also needs to be addressed as well, too. Because no matter how booked and busy you are, the world changes. Okay?

You will always naturally have a decline in your retention- Mm-hmm. if you aren't consistently filling up your book with new clients. Okay? And the efforts, and I've been talking about this a lot recently, the effort that you put in today in your marketing is not to pay off tomorrow.

It's to pay off in a week, weeks, months, years, even sometimes two years from today. Right? And so, if you stop now, you can F up your algorithm and the reach that you had, because you're now nu- no longer showing up anymore. Right?

So, the algorithm's gonna be like, okay, well this is somebody who's not showing up anymore and there's nothing for me to show these people anymore, so I'm just gonna stop. And then you're gonna have to build from scratch later on. And you're turning off the faucet, so you're stopping the nurturing process of all the people who were gonna come see you eventually if you were consistent. But now they're not getting nurtured, and now they're seeing other hairstylist content or they're getting Madeline Reed's ads.

Right? Mm-hmm. And so, it- it- so, you can't stop that- that- that flow. You can't turn off the faucet and the sink and- and- and- and just expect to come back and everything to be normal and pick it back up again.

There has to be some sort of consistency, which is why we need to systematize the marketing to make it as easy and effective as possible for you. When you have a marketing foundation and a strategy in place, marketing and showing up consistently becomes a lot easier. Mm-hmm. And feels a lot better, because it actually works and does what it needs to do.

But most importantly, it makes it easy for you to show up, right? Yeah. And the goal is, eventually, for you to grow so much and- and- and make enough money for you to be able to take what's already working and then just hire it out, so that way you don't have to think about it anymore. But first, you need to get something working and you have to stay consistent with it.

And, if you ever want to make enough money in order for you to hire this out, right? Then there has to be new clients coming into the door, because that's the only way that you can have significant price increases to make enough money to then hire it out. Right? So, it's a good thing that your social ...

if you're in a s- situation where your social media's working for you or you're in a booked and busy circumstance, whatever it may be, that's awesome, my friend, but marketing doesn't stop. Like, it doe- it does not stop. It is something where it always has to be consistent. And if you take a break right now, you may not see the detriment of that right now, but there- you're putting a big amount of risk now into your business.

And you are- you're- you're- you're running the- on the hope that when you come back things will pick back up, and that may not be the case. So true. Momentum is definitely, like, solid gold, and you wanna leverage that. I love what you just said.

Hmm. Yes. And you know what? I- I'm sure that you will agree with me, uh, and I know that there's gonna be people listening to this right now.

I know you can think about a time where you had some sort of momentum. Mm-hmm. Or something was good and you maybe didn't take advantage of the momentum as much as you possibly could. Yeah.

Or you burnt- got burnt out of it, and you took a step back, and now you look back and you wish that you hopped on that train. You wish that you took more advantage of that, right? 100. Think about that right now so you don't end up in that circumstance again.

So true. And I think this ties so beautifully into what we're gonna talk about next week, which is your operations, right? Oh, yeah. Setting up ...

Setting it up so that this is, like, a great thing for you, not something that you have to, you know, stress and worry about. 'Cause I think it's very easy to drop things when you're overwhelmed, and so I love what you just said. I think that's such an important point. Yeah, dude.

Looking forward to talking about operations. That is one of the biggest things that I've been teaching for a long time, and it's something that is very under-teached because it is hard. But I think it's very increasingly becoming important in today's day and age, making sure that you have streamlined communications, streamlined admin, getting some time back into your life so that way you can focus on the things that take up a lot of time and energy, such as marketing consistently, right? You wouldn't be so burned out of marketing, and you'd maybe have a little bit more energy to show up in it if the other things in your life were more streamlined.

So, my friend, if you're in a place where you are so sick of growing your clientele with social media and feeling like you're always on a hamster wheel to post on social and go out into your local area and ask for referrals and all the things to get clients into your chair, if you're in a space in which you're a little bit scared of consumer behavior right now and you're s- and you're seeing clients stretching out their appointments more than they used to, whatever it may be, I am throwing a party that I am so excited to invite you to, where we're gonna be building a recession-proof client experience in just three days. And I'm calling it The Client Experience Glow Up Party, because you and me together, my friend, over three days, we are going to have a lot of fun in business building and creating a client experience that is really standing out in today's day and age, matches client consumer behavior, and that top stylists are using right now to see a lot of success in growing their clientele and retaining their clientele, and making it so clients want to keep coming back and spending more. So, that's gonna be May 4th through the 6th. Mark it down on your calendars right now, and go to hunterdonia.

com/party if you wanna come party with me, honey. And let me tell you, I put on a good party. You can ask any of my friends. All right?

Or, you can go ahead and DM me on Instagram @hairbyhunty the word party, and I'll send you the link to get signed up, and I cannot wait to see you there. Thank you, my friend, for tuning into the Modern Hair Stylist podcast. Thank you so much, Jodi, for being here today. Appreciate you, my friend.

Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2025 Hunter Donia LLC.