Debunking Myths and Misconceptions about Texture and Curly Hair with Martina Nicholas

What's the tea, friend? My name's Hunter Donia, industry business educator for hairstylists, but my friends just call me Hunty. Whether it be growing your clientele, making more money, or automating and streamlining your systems, in the next 20 minutes or so, you'll be hearing realistic, actionable strategies to create a beautiful career for yourself behind the chair. So, if you're ready to get into it, welcome to the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. Today, we have a very special guest to be coming on who's gonna be speaking to us about curly hair and natural texture. And I met this person when I was at Keia Neal's Texture vs.

Race, and her and I just completely kicked it off, and we had such a beautiful, magical time at that event. And I found out that she was educating and doing really freaking cool things for the industry. And so I was like, "Oh my god. I need to have her on the podcast."

I have learned so much from her just from following her on social thus far, and she has tons of momentum in her education career right now, and it's been really freaking cool to see. So, I'm really excited to share with you, Martina. Hello, Martina. How you doing today?

Hi. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I am Martina Nicholas.

I am a texture expert, an educator, and yes, I am so excited to get into it and just talk all things curls and texture. Yeah, dude. It'll be good. So tell me about your background with like h- what brought you to, uh, doing what you're doing today.

It was my own personal curl journey. I was someone that, from age as young as I can remember to about 23, 24, so maybe 25, wore my hair straight. I've had relaxers, I've done silk presses, I've done a lot of quote-unquote protective styles. We'll get into that.

Um, and so I really decided that I wanted... Honestly, I wanted my hair to be longer is really how it started, full transparency. I was like, "I'm gonna stop putting heat on my hair, it's gonna get longer, and then I'm just gonna go back to straightening the life out of it because society tells me that I should have straight, long hair," right? And once I stopped doing that, I just slowly but surely built this authenticity within myself and it changed the psychology of how I thought about my hair.

I started to learn about curly products, and I'm just a nerd when it comes to hair anyway, and so I was excited to see what was out there, and I just shifted my clientele. When I started to shift, a lot of my guests started to shift, and then I also realized how big of a need it was to really have someone that not only can do curls, but can do tighter curls, can do them well, and that also share the life experience. I feel like that's the piece that's missing, whether it's your own life experience or you can understand/talk to/relate to it. Gotcha.

So that was seven, eight years ago, and I've been, like hitting it ever since. Hell yeah, dude. Yeah. And you do a beautiful job doing it.

Your work is so beautiful and it shows, and like, I think- I genuinely... It definitely shows, like I feel like- like the difference between people who are, like, educating and putting out really freaking badass work is like however their personal experience also ties into what they're producing and what they're putting out there, and also like, because that creates the why, like that creates the passion, and your passion for that and your own personal experience and- and how you put it into it really definitely, uh, is reflective in- in your work. So, I- I think that's so freaking beautiful. And so today, what we wanted to talk about, just because I felt like...

I mean, I know that I probably, myself, have tons of things to learn still and I have tons of misconceptions in my brain, but I believe everybody does around natural texture and curly hair, because unfortunately, it's something that we have not learned enough about, and there's so much more to explore, and there's so many different types of curls, and there's so many different opinions as well, too, and so many different experiences, right? And so, um, I wanted to talk about like the biggest misconceptions or like myths that are out there that people may have going through their brains, um, or that they maybe seen on social from some influencer about curly hair. And you and I, before we got into this, we talked about- a little bit about some bullet points of- of some misconceptions that are out there, and I think that one thing, one great place to start out with, if you're down for it, is talking about water. What is the tea with the water?

Is it good? Is it bad? Should we leave it in there? Are we locking it in?

What's the tea? Yes, yes. Water, water, water. I tell my guests this, I tell, uh, stylists when I teach classes this, like I look at water as a product.

Mm. Because I think that, especially how, relating to influencers and just seeing what we're all inundated with, a lot of the times they are subconsciously trying to sell you a product, right? So, they're focused on, "This product is making my curls do this." However, it's water.

It's water that's making your curls do that. Your curls need water for elasticity. They need water for shrinkage, which a lot of people don't love, but that means your hair is healthy if your curls can reform back to where they should be. It needs water to smooth down frizz.

Water will help you work product in and help the product really absorb, so making sure people have enough water in their hair whether you have curly hair or you're styling someone with curly hair, making sure there's a ton of water. Leave all the water in. Shampoo, don't wring out. Condition, don't wring out.

Leave all the water in, put your products on top of that, use more water. If you think you have enough water and you're still getting frizz, you probably don't have enough water. Use more water over the top with your products, lock that all in, and then use your towel to scrunch that and get the water out, and now everything's set. Your products will form a really good cast, and that'll give you some really great longevity or give your guests some really great longevity when they go into their week or those next few days after the salon.

And do you find that, like with your own clients that come into the chair, like do you find like- like normally that is like the main missing ingredient? Yep. Literally, and they have no idea why their hair is frizzy. Right.

They don't know why their hair won't curl every time they style it. They've used all these products, and that... During the consultation, I'm like, "Well, I guarantee you're probably just not using enough water."Right.

And they look at me, and they're like, "Really?" And nine-and-a-half times out of ten- ... when I'm styling them, they go, "Yeah, I would have never used this much water." Right, right.

Mm-hmm. So if you think you're using enough water, use more. Use more. Use more.

Exactly. I love it. Okay. And so that brings us into our n- and my, uh, our next point, which is the whole- Mm-hmm.

debate or misconception, I guess, over... Because, you know, you have water, so water's gonna get the hair wet, right? Like, shape- Right. when it comes to curly hair.

And then, like, should curly hair be cut wet? Should it be always be doing dry cuts? What's your, what's your experience or, or standpoint with that? Personally, I'm a dry cutter.

Even before I really transitioned into curls, I was dry cutting hair that was straight, just because I felt like I knew how that hair was going to look when it was finished. Because you're wearing your hair dry, not wet. So it cut out the double cut, right? I didn't have to cut wet, go back in- Right.

texturize dry. With texture, I... There's plenty of ways to do everything, right? I feel like the tighter the texture gets, though, depending on the type of shape they have, if they want a really expanded shape, if they're wearing their curls...

I tell my guests, "If you're wearing your hair curly, 85, 90% curly, natural all the time, then let's do a dry cut on you." Because when you wear it straight, you're not really looking for the things that it does straight. You're just doing that on occasion, versus wanting the volume that you can really get, wanting the shape that you can really get. And it's hard to put that shape into hair that is stretched out, because you don't know where those layers truly lay.

So, I have cut guests wet, dry, especially prior to all of my curl experience, but now I do everyone dry. And I find that I just have more control, and I can really see what's going on. On the flip side of it, the tighter the curls get, the more shrinkage you have. So if you're cutting that hair wet, water holds weight, so it's gonna stretch the hair out.

If you're cutting that hair dry or blown out, it's stretched out, so you can't really see what those curls are doing. Mm-hmm. So a lot of the times, you end up cutting too much off, or you end up with, like, some funky layers and the shape's not cohesive, because most people's curls aren't completely uniform. We don't walk around with, like, permed heads of curly hair.

It's some people have tighter curls on one side, some people have tighter curls and looser curls on the bottom. So, to be able to really see where all of those curls lay and blend it together, doing it dry, in my opinion, is the best way to do that visually. And for me, I don't want to have somebody leave my chair and I have anxiety about what their hair's gonna look like. Yeah.

I know what their hair looks like before they leave. I can make any tweaks, and we know that it's the shapes that they want. Yeah. And then I feel like also, you know, people who have tighter texture, I mean, normally have some sort of trauma about getting way too much length- Mm-hmm.

cut off, right? Or just- Mm-hmm. Yup. you know, so many different things that could possibly happen.

But definitely with the length- Yeah. and it's so... I mean, would you agree, like, it's obviously so much easier to cut way more off than you would like to if it's wet, right? Oh, absolutely.

And if you're not used to working with hair that shrinks either, or if this is a new guest, you don't know how their hair is going to act. Right. And so, there are some guests that if they came in with their hair straight and they just wanted a trim, like maybe a perimeter trim, I would be comfortable doing that. I've been doing hair for 15 years.

I work with their texture. I know what that's going to look like. I think the combination of working on texture dry and then the education I had prior to that gives me that experience as well. But that's about as much as I would do.

Maybe trim some face trimming, maybe trim the perimeter, but layering and things like that, especially seeing that most people have two to three textures on their hair, just gets kind of iffy. Yeah. Bring up a- Yeah. really good point about, like, you know, somebody may have a different texture, like, under their occipital bone and then a different thing up here- Mm-hmm.

different thing over there. Super important to take into consideration. And then another thing you brought up was the communication, right? Um, I think ab- that...

Uh, I learned about this particularly from Texture Versus Race with Kia, talking about how, like, okay, well, if you're gonna be cutting this dry, right, for curly, for a curly cut, like, what happens when this person maybe possibly wants their hair, wear their hair straight? And so, it really comes down to, like, figuring out what your client's priority is, right, and figuring out, like, is this p- how is this person going to want to h- wear their hair the majority of the time? What are the expectations that we're gonna set? I feel like that's also a really big part of it as well.

It really is. And that's, like you said, it's a conversation. I feel like a lot of the times, as stylists, we get ourselves in these situations on the backend to where now we're unsure, we don't know if they're gonna like it, or if they wear it straight, something's gonna happen. But that needs to happen in the consultation, especially if I'm talking to you, you've never had a curly cut, so now it's like, "Okay, well, let me tell you what this is.

Let me tell you that this is a haircut that we're going to cut dry, so we can see where everything is, we can give you the shape that you want. We'll go over washing." Typically, I teach all my guests from start to finish how to wash their own hair. I always joke that we all learned how to wash our hair from a Herbal Essence commercial.

And that is, that is not what you want to do with curls- ... because you will be detangling your hair for 35 minutes. Right. So, I teach them how to wash, I teach them how to style.

But it is that conversation, "How often are you wearing your hair straight?" And a lot of the times, you can tell that if they're wearing their hair straight often by the condition of their curls- Mm-hmm. especially through the ends. Are they a little more limp?

Do they have straighter pieces? Does it have that... We all know what the, it looks like when the hair is burned with a flat iron. Yeah.

Do they have that kind of texture, that look? Or do they maybe want to smooth their hair out occasionally because they want to wear it that way? I talk to my guests a lot, especially in the tighter realm, because we've been so inundated with the European standard that a lot of people think that straight hair looks better. But my question to my guests, and that I talk about in the classes too, is, "Are they wearing their hair straight for a style choice, or are they wearing their hair straight as their identity?"

Yeah.... and then if they want to break through that, you have options because I'm your resource. I'm someone that can help you get your hair healthy. I'm someone that can teach you what shape will look great.

I can teach you how to style it. And I find that those things are typically what's keeping people out of really wanting to wear their hair natural, if they're kind of on the fence. Gotcha. Okay, cool.

Um, my next question for you, because we talked a little bit about water and how water's like very essential and important. Mm-hmm. I've heard, and I don't know what to believe, so I'm excited to hear what's your- ... what's your standpoint of this is.

I've heard about, like, um, what's it called? Like, making your hair hydrophobic, right, because of, like, locking it in with oils or something like that, that you can't get off of the, off of the, the hair strand, right? I'm assuming that goes into, like, we talk about, like, detoxing, and you, uh, a bullet point that we wrote down was, oh, bo- that I wrote down for us was overuse of oils. So I don't know if those things relate- Mm-hmm.

but I would love to hear your take on all of that. Yes. So one of my favorite analogies that I feel like starts it off and people are like, "Oh, I get it." If you make a salad at home and you put balsamic vinaigrette on that salad, then you go to wash that bowl in the sink and you literally watch the oil and the water beat apart.

Mm-hmm. Because the water can't really break through that oil well, so now you need the dish soap, you gotta really get it clean to get that oil and that water to work together to now clean out of that bowl. Same thing with your hair. Hmm.

So if you're using really heavy raw oil specifically, like if we're going to Sprouts or Whole Foods and buying the jar of coconut oil and slathering it on our hair, for one, that molecule's not even meant to penetrate into the hair. So you're really not doing much. But for two, a lot of people aren't trained on how to get that out of the hair, but it's also not necessary. Oil is used typically as a buffer for heat, as something that'll help smooth, it gives some sheen.

That's great when you're wearing your hair straight. Like, that's the time and the place for it. When you're wearing your hair curly, again, you need so much water that you end up typically dehydrating your hair, and so you're continuing to try to work and get your hair into a specific shape, texture, um, specific smoothness. But with this oil coated on top, that water can't penetrate.

And so I typically just remove oil because I'm the stylist that is the same as my clients. If you tell me to use a bond builder, for example, once a week, I'm gonna probably use it every time I wash 'cause I think it's gonna work faster. Mm-hmm. Versus saying, okay, you can use a oil sparingly.

I'll remove the oil, and then when I feel like their hair is at a level to where, okay, now you can use maybe a tiny bit of oil to break up your cast- Mm-hmm. or if you do wanna see a little more sheen, maybe use something that is a light serum, really getting their hair healthy first underneath, because most of the time when they see their hair in that state, they realize that they never needed oil for this style. Mm-hmm. I love, uh, using oil to break, 'cause it, to like break the cast is a gr-, that's a, such a great- Mm-hmm.

example. Uh, like, it has its place, right? But if it's- Mm-hmm. if it's misused, then like, it can very much not make good things happen.

Right. Right. And it's like when you don't know or don't have the proper tools, you're just using things that you see. Mm-hmm.

And a lot of people, even right now, there's a big conversation about like hair growth oils and things like that, and a lot of scalp issues are caused by overuse of oil as well. Yes. So whether it's dandruff, whether it's seborrheic dermatitis, whether it's hair loss, alopecia. So really just remembering that water is moisture.

We need moisture for our scalp. We need moisture for our hair. And oil has never given us moisture, but it looks like it does, and that's the tricky part, because it makes your hair look shiny, it makes your hair feel soft. So on the outside, you think the oil is doing something, but it's topical.

Ugh. Mic drop. That was so good. Yes.

Thank you. I'm obsessed with that. I love that. Okay, I think at the top of this episode, you said something about protective styles.

So tell us, tell us- Yes, I did. yes. Okay. So please break that down for us.

So in the tighter curly community, there are something that we call protective styles. You've s- probably seen them, whether it's box braids, faux locs, cornrows, anything of that nature. And a lot of tighter curly guests, coily guests are using these styles to protect their hair, quote unquote, but what it's really doing is dehydrating their hair. Hmm.

And here's why. Protective styles are something that I feel have not been taught to the consumer properly, how to maintain, how to wash their hair, wash their scalp, what they should really be doing. So now insert all the oils, right? Your scalp's itchy, so you're using a oil.

Or your... Ba- basically that's the main reason. Scalp's itchy, so you're using a oil. So now you're putting all this oil on your scalp, that's now getting into your hair.

But most of the hair is synthetic, and so this synthetic hair is absorbing your natural oils and the moisture from your hair out of your hair. And I also see a lot of the times that people are wearing these protective styles way too long. Mm-hmm. You're keeping something in your hair that's meant to be worn maybe four or six, eight weeks.

12, 16, 20 weeks, six months. And so now we're not only getting into your hair is dehydrated for that long, you may not have even put water on your hair for that long. Mm-hmm. I see online a lot of like apple cider vinegar rinses for the scalp when the hair is braided, and, but again, moisture and water is the only thing that's going to moisturize your hair.

Mm-hmm. Just like your skin. So you're moving into these phases. Lot of hair loss around the hairline.

Lot of edges are lost because of protective styles, because these braids are now growing out, it's putting tension on these really fine hairs. You're pulling it back in a ponytail or restyling, remanipulating, and the style just wasn't meant to have that actual type of longevity. But what it comes from is the idea that hair that's that dense, hair that's that curly is a burden to take care of. Hmm.

So now, let's get it into this style that I'm not gonna have to do anything with, which is exactly the opposite. It's just a different style. Yeah. And I'm very open and honest about that with everyone.

Even when people talk about, "Well, I thought I was gonna go curly and it was gonna be so easy." No, it's just a different style. Right. You still have to style, you still have to treat, you still have to keep your hair healthy.

This is just the way you're styling it now. And so, I like to do more of what I like to call natural protective styles. Like, even my hair right now, I braided it in four braids, let it dry, and then I'll take it out. Mm.

But it's my hair, my natural hair. It's not going to have anything else in it that's going to take away out of the natural oils. What also happens when the hair is now re-parted and re-situated when it's braided, is it's breaking apart your natural curl groupings- Mm-hmm. and now it's having the oil taken out in that way.

So a lot of the times, there's a good amount of rehab that my guests have to do to get their curls back curly after wearing their hair in protective styles. And I'm not completely against them. Like, I'll go get my hair braided, but I'll keep my hair a- maybe four to six weeks, or maybe I'll take around, take the hairline down and have that redone so that that's not pulling out around the hairline. I wash my hair, I sit under the hooded dryer, do all the things that I need to maintain my hair while it's in that style.

Got you. And I mean- Mm-hmm. so would you say that like, so it sounds like another thing where it's like okay within moderation, you know, doing it responsibly. Mm-hmm.

But then would you also say like, I mean, even just like within the name, like protective styles, right? I feel like that could be, like, so by itself, like misc-, like a huge mis- create huge misconceptions of like, oh, this is going to- Yes. like, protect my hair as I grow it out, and it's gonna stay super healthy, et cetera, et cetera. Yes.

Well, and here's the thing. Here's where I see that that makes sense and kinda works that way, is- Mm. if you're not wearing your hair curly. Mm.

Because if you're not wearing your hair curly, the ends are protected, it's not being over-manipulated with the risk of breaking off. You're not putting heat on it, and when you're going out of that protective style, you're probably smoothing it out anyway, so you can't tell that your curls are dehydrated. Smoothing out dehydrated curls actually gets you a smoother result. Mm.

So that protective style is protective in some way, but I think that we just didn't have all the information either. We just didn't really realize or know that, "Oh, this is what's causing that. This is why my hair feels like..." Because everybody that's worn braids over the summer knows when they take those braids out, their hair is gonna feel dry.

It's gonna, they're gonna have to wash it a few times, you know, to deep condition. Right. You've s- they've seen what's going on. We just haven't labeled it, or we haven't really talked to it as to why that's going on.

Gotcha. Which is why it's so important- Mm-hmm. that, like, we do have people like you who are, like, practicing hairst stylists, like licensed hairst stylists- Mm-hmm. who are spreading this information.

So thank you for doing so. Mm-hmm. It's really awesome. Yes.

Okay. And my, the last thing that I would love to talk to you about is lightening curly hair, and the- Yes. different misconceptions that we may have, um, around that, and what, what's, what's your take on that? I think that, in general, even not just curly hair, I feel like when we get out of that level six, seven, a lot of people go, "Oh, I don't know what to do.

It's too dark. It's too thick. I don't, I don't know. 30 volume, 40 volume."

And we just need to know that we're all hairst stylists, first of all. We all have color training. We know what color does, right? So the darker it gets, the darker that underlying pigment is.

So the more time it needs to lift out of that underlying pigment. Mm-hmm. 20 volume? I don't use anything over 20 volume.

I typically am, like, 10 around the hairline, 20 through the top, so that it can all process together. I also am someone that believes that even if you wanna be platinum blonde, and I know I can make you platinum blonde right now, if you're curly, I'm not going to. Mm. Because of a couple reasons.

If you haven't had color, or you have ha- hair trauma based on hair color, hair cutting, whatever, you may not want to go that light, or you may be wary. But also, any lightening of that nature is going to shift curls. I don't care what anybody says. It's going to shift your curls in some form or fashion.

Will it completely knock your curls out? No. But it will probably shift them, and most people aren't prepared for that. Right.

Most people think they are, or they see photos of people who have really bright blonde, but it's finger coiled and diffused, and it's styled and looks very curly, looks like it has a lot of volume, looks like it has a lot of shape. But that also takes a lot of maintenance at home. Mm-hmm. And I'm a low maintenance girly.

My guests are low maintenance, so I also know what they're going to do at home. And they may not be using four or five products, including their styler, their shampoo, conditioner, treating, all of that. So let's get you into that realm. Let's see how you like that.

Let's see how your curls feel. You wanna go lighter? We can go lighter. Mm-hmm.

But 10 to 20 volume, having that on full time, especially on someone that's tighter curlier to coily, will lift. The hair structure is a little bit different, and coily hair will, it will surprise you and shock you, and it will lift. I can get people, most of my guests in general, even before curls, I'm in Arizona, so a lot of my guests are Latinas. I was doing balayages and highlights.

Most of my guests my whole career have been level twos and threes. Mm. And that 30 volume, you're not getting out of that peach stage. It just doesn't have enough time to work and process.

It's working too fast to lift you up into the levels that you want to be in, to get you into those eights or nines. And so- Yep. 20 volume, low and slow, and account for that. Account for that in your timing.

Account for that in your pricing. Let people know why that needs to happen, because we wanna protect your hair, whether it's curly or not, right? We wanna protect your hair. We wanna make sure that you can leave here, you can still grow your hair out, you can still have healthy hair.

You're not gonna have any trouble styling, not gonna have any damage. So 20 volume. I also love fast oils. I will, like, sing their praises, because they really do help boost my timing.

I am able to use them and process, like, 25% faster, and not worry about curl integrity. So I'll use my 20 volume.... use my fast foils, and most of my guests only process for about 20 minutes once their product is, once their color's applied. Badass.

So freaking cool. I mean, and, you know, not to mention too, it's like, not only is this going to alter your... This, ah, has a potential to alt- alter your curl pattern di- right now, but also, it's like, that's going to be that same hair that you have until it grows all the way out and you have to cut it off- Yeah. you know?

Like- Mm-hmm. And that's gonna, and then that's gonna probably, could possibly reset your entire curly hair journey- Exactly. you know? Like, there's, it's not just- Exactly.

a risk about what happens right now, but also, like- Yeah. setting you up for the future too. Yeah, and that's honestly where it all happens, right? Mm-hmm.

It's not that first appointment they come back. Right. Because they still love the blonde, they're styling it, they're d- It's when they have to go back to school, or when their kids are busy- Hmm. or when they just don't have time and aren't properly taking care of themselves, that then they come in and you're like, "Ah, did they have bangs the last time they were here?"

Is their hair shorter? Yeah. Is it a chemical cut? Like, what's going on?

Yeah. So, it really is the longevity of that. And just having conversations, like, really being a professional. Hmm.

This is maintenance. Whether it is a bronde or a blonde, it's still going to be maintenance. Yeah. These are the products I recommend.

I also, like, love K18 for this exact reason. Like, this is what you need to use, but if the things that I recommend aren't in your budget either, and so, and you aren't able to stick to maintenance as well, especially if you're coming from being pretty dark, let's figure out what's gonna work best. Yeah. And making you blonde might not be that.

If we wanna make you blonde, 20 volume low and slow. If you have five, 10 volume, especially if you're not used to working on hair that's that dense, and hair that is a little more difficult to work through, because most of my guests, all of my guests really, I highlight them with their hair in its naturally curly state- Wow. I'll detangle, but- Yeah. it's still a little more to detangle and get through than someone that has smooth hair or straight hair.

Five volume, 10 volume. Sure. Work on your timing, get some models in, see how it works so that you have confidence behind knowing if you're not someone that believes that 10, 20 volume will work, so that you can see it yourself before you really start building a clientele around it, have some confidence. But, I promise you, nobody on my page is lifting it with anything higher than 20 volume.

I love it. Okay. Martina, this was so freaking good. I learned so much personally.

Yes. Very freaking excited that, ah, so many people are gonna be able to hear this and learn from you. If somebody wants to dive deeper with you, if somebody, like, really wants to master their knowledge and repertoire when it comes to working with texture, um, ah, what do you have to offer? How are you offering those things to stylists nowadays?

So, I have a handful of ways that you can learn from me. I, you can follow my education page, it is at Sunflower Curls_Education. That is going to be a stylist direct link to more stylist tips, not necessarily quick consumer or guest-related tips. Hmm.

I do virtual education, so I have different virtual education classes coming up. One of the classes that is a fan favorite is Curls 101. So, you will learn all about curl categories, you will learn how to identify them, what they need. I go over brand agnostic product knowledge, because, again, for one, we've been having curly hair before there were curly hair products, right?

So, I am not someone that believes that all of the products have to say curly for them to work in curly hair. You just have to know what they do and what results you're looking for. Yeah. I also bring in a tighter curly model and do a full wash service and styling service on her so that you can see what that looks like, see how much water I'm actually using, see the smoothing, see the process.

Wow. That's been the fan favorite, for sure. Um, I also offer one-on-ones, so if you are someone who is close to Arizona, want to come to Arizona, want to do it virtually, that is an option as well. And you can always book me in your salon.

You and a group of friends can reach out and have me come out and teach a class. I was actually just in Cleveland. I finished teaching them a highlighting class, so they've learned my full curriculum so they know natural protective styling, four haircuts, two color patterns, so pretty much any type of curl that walks in, they have no issues with. Oh, yeah.

And yeah, send me an email. We'll talk about what you need. I really am someone who finds it very important to custom tailor everything to what you're learning, because everybody's demographic is different. I do really feel that we should all start at least approaching the tighter curl space because of the demographic of what the world is looking like.

Racially, yeah. Most of my younger client, right, exactly, most of my younger clients that come in are biracial. Yeah. And so their parents don't have the same curls as them, whether it's the mother or the father.

Then I have most, a lot of guests that have multiple kids with multiple texture, so- Mm-hmm. if you want longevity in the career that you're in, it's something that we're going to have to just be uncomfortable with learning, but also have grace, because when you were coming out of beauty school, you didn't feel so compelled to know everything and be perfect in everything and be able to offer all those service perfectly. You were learning, you were taking education. It's the same thing with texture.

Just be open and honest about that. Let people know this is what you're learning. Do the same things you did when you first got out of school. Find some models, find a community you can get into.

Curly people will refer you day in and day out, and curly hair will absolutely change your career. Ah. Especially if you're in an area that nobody offers it. Do one curly person's hair well.

Do one curly person's hair well, and also teach them how to do it. That's how I get most of my referrals. From the doctor's office, from the gym, from yoga, the grocery store. Nobody's leaving the salon and sending people to me.

They know how to style their own hair, and people are seeing that, and that's where I'm getting most of my new guests from. So good. So good, Martina. I'm available.

You are available. I'm available for all the curly teachings. And I also really think it's important, at least for me, I don't know everything and I can't speak for every single tight curly person in my culture, but-There's questions that people have that they're afraid to ask, or there's things or situations that people have gotten into that they don't know how to approach, and I really have been, and I really am open and honest, transparent. My classes are safe spaces.

Come with all the questions. Come open to learn. Whether it's virtual, whether it's in person, just know that for me personally, I feel like uncomfortability is where growth is. Doesn't have to be uncomfortable pain, but it's cringey maybe- ...

or it makes you, it gives you that shift. I love that, because now we're gonna break through something, you're gonna learn something, and you're gonna be able to touch a whole different community than you ever see in your salon. Again, revenue. We all, the bottom line is that we want to make money to be comfortable, right?

If you can make twice as much money working on half the clients, why wouldn't you open that up just a little bit, see what that's like? I think that's a very strong pitch. Mm-hmm. And you are offering such beautiful value.

And w- we're gonna leave your Instagrams, and also, if you have a website link or anything like that, we'll also leave that in the co- in the show notes as well too. My friend listening to this, highly recommend that you go and check Martina out as soon as you possibly can, because as you've heard, we- she is offering something really badass and something that could have the potential for you to absolutely expand and optimize your business and, and offer these services that are very much needed. Like, in the, in, uh, the, uh, the majority of communities, there's a massive lack, and need, and want for these types of services and somebody who knows what they're doing, and, like, you could be that person, and, and, and- Mm-hmm. make a great living doing it, but also make a big impact doing that as well.

Yes. And so, uh, thank you so much for teaching us how to do that, 'cause it, it means a lot to me, and I know it means a lot to other people, and, um, I'm really excited that people are gonna be able to listen to that, this, and, uh, take advantage of that with you. Yeah, me too. I'm so grateful- Yeah.

to have been on the podcast. Thank you, thank you. Absolutely. I love what you're doing as well, and I'm just ...

Of course we met at TBR in Baltimore. Like, why wouldn't we have met at TBR? But that's, that's just how, that's the alignment, and I'm just excited about what you're doing and to just have my little, my little space- Yeah. on your, your platform, and to just keep pushing out great information.

Yeah, dude. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. We really do appreciate it.

Okay, my friends. Thank you so much for tuning into the Modern Hairstylist Podcast. Again, make sure to check out the show notes for all Martina's links. So much love to you.

Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2024 Hunter Donia LLC.