Efficiency, Creativity, and Personal Fulfillment with J Ladner

What's the tea, friend? My name's Hunter Donia, industry business educator for hairstylists, but my friends just call me Hunty. Whether it be growing your clientele, making more money, or automating and streamlining your systems, in the next 20 minutes or so, you'll be hearing realistic, actionable strategies to create a beautiful career for yourself behind the chair. So, if you're ready to get into it, welcome to the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

Hello, my friend. Thank you so much for tuning into the Modern Hairstylist podcast. Y'all know that I do not very often have guests on here. However, when I do have a guest, you know it's gonna be cute.

Like, you know it's gonna be good. And this episode is no exception to that, because I have my lovely, beautiful friend Jay here. What's the tea, Jay? What's up the world of Hunty?

Listen, I'm so excited that I'm on this podcast. I, you know, I adore you so much. I love watching the rise of your community coming to the forefront. You are really iconic and epic at what you do, and we needed you, and you're here, and you're making stylists just thrive.

So, what's the gig, girl? We're here. Dude, thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

So, Miss Jay Ladner is here because I just have not had Jay on the podcast in a while. And if you're not familiar with Jay, I'll let Jay, uh, introduce themselves in just a moment. However, what I do need to say is, I look up to you so much, and I've looked up to you since the beginning of this journey so much, because of how obviously and authentically you really, really give a shit about what you do. You live and breathe what you do.

And, and what you do is inspire and take care of other people within this industry, but also within the world. And it just comes from a 100% real place. Mm-hmm. Like, a full intention and purpose to serve.

Yeah. And it's in such a beautiful, friendly, open, nonjudgmental, accepting way. And I just strive to show up in my own way that I'm serving others around me in the exact same way that you do, because it's just so inspiring and it's so beautiful. And so, that's exactly why I, number one, am so, like, proud to call you a friend in one way or another.

I'm so excited that you're a part of our world. And of course, that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast, 'cause I wanted to share your beauty and love with my people who tune in. And so, for anybody who's listening who does not know who you are, Jay, tell them the tea. Like, tell us who we're working with here today.

Wow. Hunty, you have a hunter. I'm over here about to, like, cry. I literally love you so much, and thank you so much for that, that such honor of that introduction.

You know, a lot of us, uh, all of us in life, when we're in the trench, right? And we're in our daily lives, and the world is constantly trying to fuck us up, and we never take a moment to actually listen and to accept. And one thing that I'm working on my journey is the word accept. So, I take every word that you said, and I honor it, and I'm very grateful for it, and I accept it.

So, thank you for giving me that joy today, and that recognition. And you know, before I tell you who I am, w- what I want you to know right off the jump is, I see you through my pain. That's what connects me to this community of hairdressers globally, is because we all come up from a place of pain. We all come from a place of rejection.

It may not happen right to us, but someone close to us, and we serve because of that. And that recognition reminds me in moving into 2024, like, I'm revved up. Like, that thank you for giving me that joy. And everyone listening, like, you have to connect on why you're here in the first place.

Why is it that I lead through freedom? Freedom of self, freedom of joy, freedom of pain, because I know what it's like to be abandoned. I know what it's like to not fit in, and I know what it's like to be rejected. And, and I wanna make sure...

And listen, I'm still a work in progress, and there's things that I get wrong, but the awareness is everything. So, leaning into awareness and, you know, understanding that we all move and shake on pain and shame. And once we recognize our shame and pain, we can then turn the page into someone else's story. So, I think that's what revs me up, is watching those breakthroughs of people being like, let go of those limiting beliefs that were placed upon you through someone else's trauma and pain.

And yeah, it sucks, and it hurts, and it doesn't feel good, but what we have the power to do moving forward in our lives is to break those chains at all cost, right? Of joy. And then success comes. It's like- Yeah.

then you can really open up your spirit and your soul, and your guest will also see the value in what you bring to the table. And then you're excited to work on your business, in your business, around your business, up in the rafters of your business. Like, everywhere you need to be in your business. Um, and you mind your own business.

It's like, my, right? Like, all of that. So, slay. That's who I am.

Very much slaying it. But I've been in the industry for going on 15 years. It's kinda wild. Like, as each year goes on, I put another level of scared-...

or fear in front of me, because I know- Yeah. that as a hairdresser, I'm a hairdresser first, I'm a educator second. But I still always go back to being a hairdresser, getting my license, and then looking at what's in front of me, saying yes, and getting into different rooms. And I've been able to have mentors guide me along the way.

I'm a very huge advocate of having mentorship, and really getting that experience and the credibility. And all of a sudden, as you move through life, I'm in Los Angeles, I am the chief brand ambassador of Olliko Professional. I just took on, the past 16 months, the director of education for Fast Foils, and we just launched globally in 16 months. We've been working really hard.

And now I'm in manufacturing. So you can go anywhere and everywhere, but it always starts with the heartbeat of the hairdresser. That's it. Yeah.

I love that. You were talking a little bit about, you were talking about, like, breaking free of the chains that are, like, holding you back from true joy. Um, I've been talking ab- a lot with my students and, like, on the podcast here recently about redefining your version of success, or, like, what your definition of success is. And I think a lot of us, especially now, and I think maybe you could agree, I think a lot of us will set these different benchmarks or numbers or experiences for ourselves, and, and make that like, like, "Oh, like if I get to this, then everything will, I'll be super happy and then everything will be good and I'll be successful."

Or, "If I don't make this number, or if I'm not doing this type of success, or if I'm not doing the same thing that everybody else is doing, then that means that I'm a failure and that I'm, there's something wrong with me." And then, like, that shame comes back up, right? And that's what the conversation reminds me of is, is redefining, like, what success looks like for you, because I feel like, at the end of the day, success should be, like, you're joyful and happy, and if, and just being who you are and loving who, who you are, and appreciating what you, the gifts that you offer to the world just naturally every single day. Yeah.

And I feel like what I took away from what you just said was like, if you're able to do that, then no matter what happens, you are successful, you know? Would you agree? Yeah. Through all of it, I, I absolutely...

That was beautiful. I absolutely agree. And I feel like when I talk about the pressure of society, one, and then the pressure that we place upon ourselves because we're adjacent to that, is it's too broad, it's too bold- Mm-hmm. it's not clear.

Mm-hmm. And it, it's too, it's too big of a mountain to climb. Right? Yeah.

I was just watching a documentary about, um, rock climbers, right? Like, and I, I'm in my curious mode of, like, just looking at different areas in documentaries and sports and all that, and, like, listening to coaches and, like, whatever. So I was watching this, and they take it in bite-sized moments, and, and what I love about that is that they have the stamina, also the courage and the strength, because they're breaking it into bite-sized pieces, that they're no longer living in the world. And I'm gonna say this as, this is, we're all hairdressers, we're not breaking it up into full-blown color correction.

We're breaking it up into little bite-sized pieces within our lives and our businesses, and we have a clearer roadmap of where we're gonna go, right? Yeah. So it's like when it's too broad, when it's too bold, when it's too big, there is such a thing. And that just sets us up for absolute devastation.

Like I've lived- Yeah. in that place, where I mean, some... This past year I had moments, little spurts of that devastation, which when that devastation is active, your ego is raging, because fear is among us, right? So it's like how do you embrace and adapt and evolve through that?

And it's looking at and scaling it back a little bit, and going, "In this next week..." Hunter, I'm gonna say something. You do this very well for your community. I was talking to Michelle, and actually I was listening, and I was there with her guest, and her guest goes, "I love that you open up your schedule and then you close it down."

And Michelle said, "Thank you so much for honoring that. That's for my mental health, and also for me being able to deliver the results that I need to do in those 30 to 31 days." And I go, "My mind..." I heard that this morning.

My mind, I was like, almost punched a hole through the wall with excitement. And I go, "That's what I'm talking about, bite-sized boldness"- Yeah. "where you really get to be tuned in and turn on, on that." Like, when you think about in the next six months, good luck.

Like, you never know. Like I think, like- No. in, like, three weeks to four weeks out is like you can really navigate your life, right, more accordingly, once you start looking out- Totally. too boldly, right?

So it's like I love how you already instill that into everyone who's in your circle and everyone who you're gonna reach, um, here in the near future. And it's like, that lifestyle, we have to give ourselves a lot of grace and adapt and evolve with smaller bolder, smaller boldness of decisions. Yeah. And I think, like, possibly...

I don't know. I feel like, I feel like the world moves and shifts and our lives move and shift with it at such a faster pace than it ever has before, and I think that that's why that's more and more true- ... that, like...... taking things in bite-sized pieces for right now in the present, instead of, like, being so obsessed with, like, what happens the next year or what the three-year vision is, et cetera, et cetera.

I think those things can be helpful. I think, like, of course, dreaming big is helpful. I think having some sort of general attainable goal in the future and understanding of that is helpful. But that may change, right?

And it also, like you said, feels extremely overwhelming and can be extremely defeating. And another thing that I feel like is happening in today's day and age is everything s- like, everybody wants something or it... I think people- Go there. set expectations of things that are supposed to happen immediately, like right now, tomorrow for us.

When in reality, like, maybe if we're coming up with that thought from, like, looking at other people, like on social media or something like that, you don't see all of the pain- Mm-hmm. the struggle, like all the time. The, also the privileges that that person had and has come from to be able to get to that place, right? And I think that because of that, because we have this perspective from social media and all the things, right, we just becau- we think that we're so behind.

And I love you talking about breaking it down into bite-sized pieces, because then it's so much more attainable and you can enjoy the present. And, you know, the good old saying of like, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. It really is, though. Like, you know?

And I love that you brought that up, because one thing that I'm realizing in my life and why I got here, and then th- it was all the levels that you just said, right? Like, understanding my privilege, understanding how hard I worked, understanding how I was bold enough to ask, like, and to get into the rooms. But also, like, the audacity and the tenacity that I just... I had to figure it out.

Like, I had kids. Like, I, I was on the, like, by myself since 16. Like, I, it was a make-or-break. It's this or I'm done, right?

Right. So we always have to find that driving factor. And I, and I remember having this conversation. I'm glad you bring this up, because a lot of people may look and they're new to me, say, on Instagram, right?

And I... Listen, guys. I'm insane. I am insane on social.

Like, I'm so consistent to the point where I make sure no one forgets about efficiency and, like, what I bring to the table. And I post about three to six times a day, and it's been like that since 2018. And I literally am just like, I love it. Like, I have a flow.

Yeah. It's a part of my lifestyle. But also, you have to realize, is that I owned a salon. I taught for brands before I was ever met on social media.

Like, I assisted for three years of my life. Like, I... Yeah. I was taking my shot in New York City and, like, found my success there, like, being a journalist, like, for fashion.

Like, it's... I already was moving and shaking and gaining credibility. So the moment everyone started to meet me, I had something to stand on. I had life experience, which life credibility has a lot to do with it.

And then I had career credibility where I got it wrong, I got it right. I, I was finding my rhythm and, like, I was learning all that I could. And then everyone met me online, and I kept that consistently, right? But I also, like, sold a business during all of this.

I opened a new business. Like, I'm always adapting and evolving in front of everyone else. So I love that you talked about that. Yeah.

So there's no shame in the game to pause. Pausing does not mean inaction. Yeah. Pausing almost...

Oh my God, love that. Yes, yes. Pausing does not mean- Amen. inaction.

It means that you get to be present in owning your salon and owning your suite and dialing in the business and having a coach like Hunter, like, guide you along the way. And, like, thank God for our world now, for the amount of coaching that's accessible to us. But you get to play in the playground. Like, don't forget to, like, get sand in them cheeks.

Like don't forget. Yeah. Like, don't forget to, like, just get into it. It's like...

let yourself ride. Like, let it ride. Like, I was a salon owner for eight years. Everyone met me the seventh year of my business of owning Crazy.

You know what I mean? Like, just calm the noise and enjoy the freedom of self. Like, how do you tap into that, right? It's like, figure that piece out.

I love that so much. Not to go too, like... Not to, like, turn the conversation around. No.

And also not to... I'm gonna do- Do it. two more not to's. Not to make it, uh, too unrelatable to the listener.

Yeah. And then third, not to go too deep if you're- I'm ready. if you're not willing to go there. Do you think...

Like you were talking about the audacity to have done what you've done and, like, do the work and take the risks and the chances and also face a new level of uncomfortability in every step of the way in your journey? Do you believe that your experience being a queer individual has anything to do with that? Or how has that been a part of your journey or your story? So I love this.

And baby, I'm always ready to get up in it. You heard me. Period. So I, I will say that...

Okay, for instance, like, there's a lot of shame that I'm still working to, through. I, I'm 36. I have two beautiful kids. I have a husband of 15 years.

I have the life that society says, like, you're supposed to have with a same-sex couple, but I have it. And, like, my husband was in a- was in active duty. He retired as a chief master sergeant. Like, he served.

Like, all of these things, right? It just... We identify. But there's still this, like, fear of shame....

that my family placed upon me and then society placed upon me. When I was 16 and that abandonment from the church, from my family, like, all of the, my safety nets that I thought were, like, supposed to always be there and, like, have my back and whatever, um, I had two options. To lean into my queer magic, or to bounce. Yeah.

Like, it was that, like, it was like, you just lean into it or you're done with life, because- Yeah. I couldn't live in the in-between. Right? I couldn't.

Like, for me, like, there was no way I was gonna butch... You think... Look at me. You think I'm gonna butch it up, Mavs?

You think this kinda butch? I feel you, girl. I came out femme, hon. I, I, this ain't no butching.

There he is. What is butch? Nice. I know I just posted the other day that I'm in my butch era watching soccer, but, like, I, it's 'cause of Tay-Tay, like I'm in all these eras.

But let's not bullet. So, so I just leaned into it, and listen, there were scary moments throughout my life. I still have scary moments, and I live in Los Angeles where they're like slurring the F word at me, and like t- Mm-hmm. and I'm like, guy, like now it just rolls off 'cause I'm like, "You're in pain."

Like, I'm living my best life. I worked on that trauma of abandonment, and I'm still working on it to this day. But I feel like... But I will say this.

That audacity of, of hit... I hit rock bottom already. Hmm. If you haven't hit rock bottom, run to rock bottom.

Right. Okay? I, I don't wish rock bottom on, on a lot of people, but when you look at success and, like, energy and, like, people, like, who are just able to adapt and evolve, they understand what rock bottom means to them. You hear me?

Yes. So I already know the rock bottom. I already felt and lived many years in the rock bottom, so everything else now is like, "Get me back to rock bottom," because I- Right. like, I'm not afraid anymore.

So it's like the world kinda dealt its cards, but also, there is, in the beauty industry... I, I'm gonna go there. In the beauty industry, because I look the way I do, and that I find that being a queer gay man, I can just sass it up with my guest and, like, sass it up in that room and, like, get away with, like, just being sassy. Like, it's- ...

'cause a lot of t- 'cause a lot of times it scares people, and- Yeah. they go, "Yeah, you can have it." Like, "You can have it 'cause I just don't wanna keep this conversation going." Or they're like, "Get out."

I've had that, too, where they're like- Yeah. "You're not gonna represent my brand. Like, we don't like that." Like, "Take the nails off, keep your facial hair, don't wear makeup, and I dare you to show up in platforms in a dress."

Like, no, right? Right. I've had those moments with brands. So it's just kinda realigning.

I think that there is this level that being queer actually saved my life. Yes. Because it gave me the audacity to fully commit to who I am, and, and I understood the power of sass. Got me here, because a lot of people can't handle it, hon.

And that's the truth tea. Yes, I love that. Yeah, no, and I think, like, whoever's listening to this, I think what a beautiful thing you can take away from that is, is like, leaning into yourself and, like, fully, like, learning how to show up unapologetically as yourself- Yes. can be such an important part of your fucking journey to success.

Praise it. Blessed be the name. And then also, it's like, again, going back to what we talked a- about at the top of the episode, it's like, if you're fully cool with whatever you have going on, with just being with yourself and loving yourself and the gifts that you have to give to the world, then no matter what happens, like, you can still lean on yourself, 'cause that's who y- all, you, that's the only person who has your back at the end of the day. Listen, I was just having a conversation with my 17-year-old son, so everyone, if you have a 17-year-old son, or you were a 17-year-old son one d- ...

at one time, um, hi, welcome to the House of Ladner where we have therapy sessions every day. We- I, okay- Yes. so I had this woman, and I, and it goes hand-in-hand with this. And I, I looked at Andrew, and, like, this past year I was so busy, like, wild, like, a- my wildest dreams ever came true.

I didn't even have it written down. I mean, I manifest, but like- Yeah. I just was like, "Yes, yes, yes." Right?

And most of it I didn't get paid for. I was just there. I'm like, "Yay!" Like, "Experience all that."

Yes. So we started, like, getting my tempo. I'm working out again. I was eating like crap.

Like, we're, as a family, me and my husband and Andrew, our daughter's off at college, so she would join in, too, but we all were like, "Okay, we're gonna get on keto, I'm gonna start working out," blah, blah, blah. We made this commitment. And I'm always aware of my son and, like, what he's doing. He's j- this is in his senior year, and I'm like, I'm a very, like, strict dad, believe it or not.

And I walked- I love that. in his room and I saw that he had, like, Cheez-Its or something, and that's not keto. Okay. And that was a promise he made to himself.

Right. Right? But I also, I go, "Andrew, listen. I wanna tell you something right now.

Things that I've learned, and listen, you're lucky to have four parents, and, like, you have the best two, most aw- like, the baddest gays on your side. Like, we're fucking-" Hear, hear. "... up in front of you and celebrating success in front of you."

Like, "It's all here." Yeah. "It's awareness. Are you aware of the room you're in?"

So I said, "Listen." Yeah. "You're not authentically your truest self. And what I'm t- saying is, you're about to go to college in the next couple months.

Like, that is your next reality. You'll be 18, you're an adult, t- society, everything you show up as builds your character and your loyalty within every community you're in. So what I would-" Mm-hmm. "...

like to bring up again is that you lied to me." to me because you said you were somebody, and then I just witnessed that you're not. And I rather- Mm-hmm. you just lean in and get away from shame.

There's no shame in this game. Like, I, only you can place that shame around yourself. And, yes- Yeah. society is around you, throwing things at you, the things you listen to, the things you see on TikTok, Instagram, whatever.

Those are just other people's energies. It's not yours. And no one's shaming you. If you would have said, "Hey, I don't want to be on keto.

I- I'm sexy, I'm hot, I'm whatever. Like, I feel good in my body. Like, y'all live your-" Right. "...

life. It's not for me," we honor that. So, you're now feeling a certain way that you have to hide it, and as I know from Brené Brown, you're in shame. And let's get to why you're there, and have I made you feel...

Right? So it's all about conversation, right? Like, the more we- Yeah. all have conversation around ourselves, and, like, we create this safer space within our communities, then everyone else we touch outside of that community feels safe, right?

So it's like- Yeah. just get into that conversation, lean into that, like, uncomfortableness, and, like, that's how you find freedom and being the most authentic self. Like, you gotta know what you don't want to know what you do want. That's on period.

I completely agree. <|agent|><|en|> Cancer, you're revving me up. I love it. I'm here for it.

Okay, we're gonna wrap this up soon, but I think that I would love to ask you two questions that I think would be really good for the top of this episode. Okay. So, at the time we're recording this, it's, uh, towards the end of the year of 2023. And so, Jay, I'm gonna ask you two questions.

One question is, like, it doesn't even have to be, like, the lesson, 'cause there's so many lessons. But what's, like, one of, like, the biggest reflections or lessons that you would like to share that you personally had or that you would like to share with others, um, that you had in 2023? Ooh. Falling on the sword.

Hear me out. Hear me out everyone. Falling on the sword. And we actually have to do this pretty frequently.

What I'm finding, 'cause I live in this space, we run from it. Falling on the sword is taking accountability of everything and every, everything and everything. With a- anything- Anything ? and everything that we do, our actions, the way we show up in spaces, the way that we show up in our personal lives, that always translates into our careers eventually.

Mm-hmm. And- Yeah. what I have found is that I said yes through abandonment. Hear me out.

This year, not always, but I wasn't working on that area in my life, that it a- it's never gone. It's never gone. The trauma is never gone, right? And I stopped looking at it, and I had all these things going on, but I started reacting to the discoveries in a negative way, where I, my ego, in some of these situations, believe it or not, led very strongly.

And I hurt some people along the way, through my word choice, through... And I, I had this wake-up moment last month when I actually got wr- done with all of my traveling and stuff, and I go, "Hoo." I started writing down and reflecting how these events, each event throughout the year made me feel, and I said, uh, "This, this one feels gross, and it's not because of anyone else." I thought it was, but it was actually me, the way I walked in, and I fell on the sword.

I made calls, and I said, "You know, I know that this one action is going to now take time for me to show you that I won't go there again, and that I take accountability." I'm standing in shit and claiming that it's shit, and I'm falling on the sword, and I have awareness of it. And I was tired, I was overworked, I wasn't working on my mental health and, you know, the things that trigger me along the way. And I took that out on the line.

So my biggest lesson is, look at your year and, like, really dissect each month. Like, if you had big events going on, or you had big movements in your business, like, really look at, like, how did you navigate that? Because in 2024, I'm gonna have a lot more stillness in my approach, where I go back to that curiosity even more, within myself first, and in the room I'm in. And know that we're all just trying to navigate life and do the best that we can.

We really, everyone really is, and things are thrown at us at all times. So, take accountability for the shit where you fuck up on and, like, fall on the sword. And, like, I did. I was like, "Oh, gosh, I, I hope not a lot of people witnessed that, 'cause I..."

Yeah. It was a mess, and I felt shame around it, but I took the shame, and I stabbed it, and I fell on the stor- the sword with awareness. So shame will- Yeah. li- like, disappear when you have awareness around the topic or the feeling or the desire or whatever that is.

So, that's my lesson. Fall on the sword, take accountability. Yeah. The shame, I mean, when you can, like, stare the shame in the face- Yeah.

and, like, acknowledge it and have awareness around it, and- Right, and just claim it. Be like, "It makes sense."It makes sense. Right.

And then you can actually learn from it too, you know, instead of it just being, like, something that's a negative concept, or you had a situation where you showed up in a way that was, that you're not very proud of, or that created undesirable results, whether that be for yourself or people around you. If you can just leave it at that and, like, move forward and, like, ignore it, and, like, just feel the shame around it, or you could confront it- Mmm. and reflect on it, and then learn something from it, like, then now you have an opportunity, now you're making the most out of the situation, and now you can actually show up better and you can take something from that moving forward, instead of just, like, ignoring it for the rest of your life. Absolutely, yes.

Yep. So I love that so much. Absolutely. What are your intentions for this next year?

Or what's, like, your biggest, like, intention for this next year moving forward? My biggest intention for the n- I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.

My biggest intention for this next year is to awaken, awaken everyone around me, because I know the secret. I do. I found it out and it's called freedom, and I'm tapping into that more, with more clarity than ever, and accepting the people who are ready to find what that freedom looks like, um, within themselves- Yeah. and within their business.

And it's been years in the making, um, one, starting with me, and then two, adapting my, you know, curriculum and everything that I bring, um, on the road and when I'm traveling and within companies when it's behind the doors, like, really, it's, it's that awakening moment that, that's, like, giving people, other fellow individuals of this world in our community permission to fill every single room, and how do you do that with grace? And I'm gonna show them. I'm gonna show all of you, so get ready. And then you have to promise that you share it to everyone in your circle of influence.

Um, that is a non-negotiable to me. We are not selfish learners in the House of Latner. Yeah. And we spread the good news.

Once we find the secret, there's no turning back, and you can have easy, profitable, more freedom within your business, and it's accessible to you, and it looks really good on you. So buckle up, bitch, 'cause brace for impact. Yes. I love it, Jay.

That's beautiful. Thank you so much for just being you and just being so amazing. I appreciate you so much, and thank you for all of this that you shared with the audience today. I know that they're going to love this and be inspired and move forward with their day in a new way, in a new, beautiful way.

I love you so much, Hunter. I'm so proud of you. You light me up- Thank you. and listen, ooh, your community, hun, we're ready.

We're ready. We're ready. Okay? We're ready for it.

Thank you so much, my friend, for tuning in to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, then I would really, really appreciate if you could leave a five-star testimonial wherever you're listening to this. Helps us reach more beauty professionals just like you. And I will catch you in the next episode.

Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye. Bye, Jay. Thank you for being here.

I appreciate you. Love you.

End of transcript. © 2023 Hunter Donia LLC.