How Demand And Scarcity Affect Perceived Value

Hey, my friend. Let me ask you a question. What do Labooboos, Erewhon, Addison Rae, and Yosemite all have in common, and how do they relate to us as hairstylists and business owners? In this episode, I'm gonna be sharing with you all of the tea about demand and scarcity and how it affects perceived value from our clients and just consumers in general, and our psychology as human beings and the way that we spend money and how we perceive price.

So if you're ready to get into it, I'm very excited because we have some juicy things to talk about today. And make sure to listen all the way through, because I am dropping a really hot tip to get clients to book an appointment with you very quickly, very fast when you are in conversation with them. And it's a outtake from a brand-new training that I dropped in my program. So you're gonna get it for free today, my friend, if you listen all the way through and you listen to it.

Before we get into it, I just wanna say hello to Jodi Brown. What's going on today, Jodi Brown? How are you doing? Hey.

I am so good. I can't wait to get into this conversation. Me too, dude. Thank you so much for being here.

Jodi is just here to co-host with me, to keep me on track, and to put in her beautiful perspective, um, with all of her amazing experience that she has, uh, as a marketer. And today, I wanted to talk about this topic because I just recently purchased a Labooboo, okay? And as everybody knows, at the time of recording this, Labooboos are a crazy hit right now. And if you don't know what a Labooboo is, it's basically this little doll thing that has just gone very viral and people are foaming at the mouths for and selling their, their body parts for to be able to get one.

Because they're becoming- ... so rare, people are spending a lot of money to get them, and they're hard to find, and they're sold out everywhere. And I personally recently saw that all these people were getting these freaking dolls and that they were really freaking cute, wearing them on their bags, and that they were selling out and nobody could get them anywhere, and they were becoming this trend. And I was like, "I want a fucking Labooboo.

Like, that is really cute." And you can call me, like, a brainwashed consumer. Like, you can call me whatever you wanna call me, but it's just what I wanted at the time, okay? It is what it is.

And so I started to go on the hunt for these Labooboos. Like, I was all over TikTok searching how to get a Labooboo. I was going on Pop Mart when they were dropping their next set, and they would sell out in .5 seconds, and I would have no chance to be able to get through.

It would crash the site. And eventually, my friend Theresa was hanging out in Chinatown, and she went to this store and she saw that they had them in stock. Oh my God. And she- ...

bought one for me. She was like, "Do you want one? I know that you wanted one." And I was like, "Yes."

And, and I was like, "How much are they?" Because these official resellers are able to mark them up, like, a lot, right? And I ended up spending, like, $75 on one Labooboo. On this little freaking doll that I- That is ridiculous.

will probably never even think about or look at in a year from now. That will be completely irrelevant in a year from now, right? Like, we're gonna look back at the Labooboo craze, and we're gonna be like, "That was so stupid," right? But mine's very cute.

I got Hope, and she's queen, and I stan her, and I love her so much, and, and I'm all about it right now, right? But I just think that, obviously, I don't think I would have been willing to spend $80 on this stupid doll- Right. if it weren't for the fact that there was so much scarcity and so much demand around this doll. Mm-hmm.

And it really got me to start to reevaluate, 'cause I've thought about this stuff before, right? Like, I've done a Taylor Swift concert ticket episode before where I kind of touched on how much scarcity affects perceived value, right? But it kinda made me really revisit this topic and think about how crazy it is that I was driven to spend that much money on this- Yeah. stupid little doll.

And another thing that happened to me recently was Addison Rae. I don't know if anybody knows who Addison Rae is. She is a former TikTok star. She would just do, like, stupid dances on TikTok, and she became, like, super viral because of that, right?

And she ended up coming out with her own music, and her recent album that she released is pretty good. And ma- majority of the, a lot of gays are really into it. A lot of, like, pop music heads are really into her music right now, and she's kind of really emerging as, like, a brand-new kind of niche pop star. For sure.

And she just announced a tour, and she is playing at a mid-size venue in Philadelphia, right? It's not huge. Like, it's not an arena or a stadium or anything like that, but it's a pretty large capacity venue. And me and my friends got on at, like, the, uh, 15 minutes prior to when they sold tickets.

We had the pre-sale. Like, we were ready to go 'cause we didn't, we, you never know with concert tickets nowadays, y'all. I don't know if you guys have bought a concert ticket in the past couple months, but it is crazy how competitive it is. So we get on this queue, and it tells you how many people in line there are in front of you.

55,000 people. That is unreal. And this ... Isn't it?

And this girl is at, so early in her career, you would expect, you would expect this to be for Beyoncé- Right. Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, but this is for this girl who is so early in her career. She's not playing, she's barely playing on the radio. I'm sure that if I asked my mom who R- Addison Rae was, she would be like, "I have no idea who the hell that is," right?

Right. And so, I'm a mi- Uh, probably a lot of people who are listening to this podcast have no idea who she is. And so it just is so fascinating to me because when I'm in this line and I see 55,000 people, the credit card is out, and I am going to spend a sh- shit ton of money on the first ticket I see to go to that show. Because the pressure and the scarcity and the demand are increasing my perceived value, and it's also shutting off probably some of my decision-making filters in my brain.

Neurological break. Yes. Therefore, making me want to spend a lot of money, or not even thinking about spending a lot of money. But also, even if I do end up spending a lot of money, I will still see it as valuable.

Long story short, wasn't able to get these fricking tickets. I wasn't even worried about getting these tickets, and I thought I was gonna be fine. And then, m- meanwhile, I go on the next, like, three sales, 'cause they had, like, two more pre-sales, a main sale, ended up not getting tickets at all. Resale is super high, and those 55,000 might have been bots, right?

Wow. But I'm still looking at that number and knowing that I may not have the chance to be able to get one of these things, and now I am willing to spend a lot of money, willing to show up and do what's required to get it, jump through hoops, wake up at a crazy time to make it happen. And so it's just very fascinating what scarcity and demand can do. And it's interesting, 'cause would you consider yourself, like, a diehard Addison Rae fan?

Fuck no, absolutely not. And I would even go as far to say that my friends, a l- a lot of my friends, they were able to get tickets, and a lot of my friends really wanted to go much more than I did. And because of my fear of missing out, because my friends around me who valued this one thing valued it, I am now looking at it as something as valuable and that I want to be a part of as well too. And so just from my own experience, I think this is so fascinating.

Last little story that happened to me recently. I'm camping in Yosemite coming up soon, and anybody who's ever tried to camp in Yosemite or even book a place or a hotel to, uh, to stay in in Yosemite, you know this shit sells out so fast. And I unfortunately had missed all the deadlines and I had to figure out a situation. And I had signed up for this text blast thing that would send me a text when any of the campsites became available.

And the other day, I got a text that a random campsite opened up. I didn't even look at the spot. I didn't look at the reviews. I didn't know where the location was.

I was just like, "I am booking this fucking campsite," and I booked it. I didn't even look at the price. I was like, "I just, I need a campsite and I really want to do this and I want to camp here," so I just did it. So this consistently shows up in our lives as consumers, and I want to do you guys a due diligence today of figuring out how we can take this psychological human behavior and relate it back to our industry and our businesses behind the chair and address some common questions that I get around scarcity or perceived value.

One of the things that b- has came up every now and then that I've kind of just struggled with figuring out what my own opinion was about it, 'cause I don't think there's necessarily right or wrongs with everything in business, of course, but I do have some thoughts about it, is when I post what my availability is, and I have a ton of different times and dates open, am I gonna seem desperate? Are people going to not book with me because that's gonna lower my perceived value? So, that's also what brought me to want to talk about, uh, this topic today, and I'm excited to address that and some other things here. But I'm gonna let Jodi guide the conversation before I go on rambles and rants No, I love, I love this conversation, 'cause as you know, like, even as you were talking, I was thinking back to all of the times where I have, like, I have three nieces who are almost exactly the same age.

They're pre-teens now, so huge Addison Rae fans. Okay. So that's why I know who she is. But, um- Yes.

yeah, I'm just thinking back to, like, all of the things that they're so crazy about and all the things I purchased as, like, a parent and, like, even myself, and it is so true that it's not always... It doesn't always make a ton of sense why we want these things that we want. And the examples that you gave are so interesting when it pertains to the beauty industry- Yes. because I feel as though in our industry, we're always thinking about, "Okay, it has to be this, like, s- really, really high-end...

If we want demand, it's gotta be this, like, you know, we have to have a really expensively decorated s- huge salon, or we need to have all of these, um, you know, different things that are, quote-unquote, luxury for our clients." And the examples that you gave, number one, the, the camping, like, that's literally just a spot on the dirt. Like, essentially, if anywhere else, it would be a driveway, right? So it just goes to show kind of what that looks like.

And then for someone like Addison Rae, who doesn't have, you know, yes, there's, like, the TikTok following and all of the things, but early on in her career, I think a lot of stylists also think, "I have to be, you know, have 20 years experience in order to create demand." And what you have very clearly illustrated is that is not what creates demand for consumers. No. Right?

Y- So, let's talk about what does. Let's talk- Oh, yeah. about what exactly you can do to build that demand and to create scarcity in a, you know, non... In a, in a genuine way behind the chair, if maybe you're not already super booked out already.

Yeah, and you know, I think that it really comes down to just being, just being, like, selectively honest, I guess, or just being- Mm-hmm. strategic in the way that you're advertising yourself, right? You're never gonna be, y- I don't want you to lie. I don't want you to, like, lie that you don't have availability.

But there are absolutely ways in which you can present yourself as, not even present yourself as being more booked and busy. You can literally just give people times and dates and have them work with, with you within certain parameters that are going to make them more likely to want to take action and perceive you as a little bit more valuable when it comes to your demand and scarcity from that perspective. Um, so, Jodi, you asked me this question of how does, like, the whole not accepting new clients affect you- Yes. as a stylist?

And I would say that this is something that probably does make people very much perceive you as in demand and very valuable and see your prices as something that are worth paying if they're high, right? But the problem with this is when we aren't taking on new clients, we are genuinely capping our income, and we're also not making up for the fact that we're gonna have natural attrition or churn of our clients year over year. On average, you will probably lose 20 to 15% of your client just to natural causes. We have unsure and sh- ever-changing economic conditions, so people's budgets change.

We have people just move away. We have just natural circumstances, even if you were doing everything right, that happen that make clients leave you and not come back. And so we need to make sure that we are always replacing those people with a little bit of new clients coming in. But then furthermore, if we ever want to raise our prices, which is the main way to raise our income significantly as beauty professionals, then we're gonna need new clients who are willing to pay those higher prices to replace the existing clients who then leave us.

And so if we turn off the faucet-... to new clients, then we're putting our business in a little bit of a riskier place, or a less opportune place to be able to safely grow year over year over year. And so, although, uh, turning off the new client faucet may create demand from a perceived value perspective, it actually hurts you or potentially could hurt you as a business. But I have somebody, um, in my mastermind program who is doing crazy numbers.

Like, she's getting, like, 50 new client requests a month, right? Wow. And what we have done to figure out how we can handle all this demand, besides just raising her prices, because that is normally the number th- one thing that we have to look at, is pricing and increasing it when we're in that really high-demand space to manage it. Bef- besides raising the price, when you have such a high influx, we have to also look at how you're running your schedule as well, too.

And so what we've been able to do is we've been able to streamline her schedule on the back end to make it so she always has room for new clients and she can still accommodate her existing clients and things are a little bit cleaner. And because of the way that we have run things, it's gone really successfully. This person is growing their income month over month, is doing very, very well. However, this person has still created gaps in their schedule, and that was on purpose, it's doing what we wanted it to do, right?

But those gaps need to be filled. And so therefore, there always needs to be some sort of flow, and she has not found her saying, you know, that she's still taking on clients reducing her demand in any way, shape, or form. It's the way that she's positioned herself as an expert in the specialty that she has, and she's filling a gap, a well-needed gap, desire, problem that is out there, and solving it, and she has a great marketing funnel and knows how to market herself. And so that goes back to all my philosophies about just knowing how to market yourself, being a specialist in something, and, uh, knowing how to speak to people to connect your solutions to their problems.

I think one of the key pieces to this conversation is, like, you're creating that demand and you're creating that scarcity, but you're still creating a path for people to get in. Like, even- Yes. when you were talking about the pre-sales for the concert tickets, like, they're having a pre-sale and then that sells out, and then they're having another pre-sale, and then that sells out, and then they're doing that same thing. Versus having all of the tickets open up at once, having everything gone, and then yes, you have all of this demand, but you have no outlet for it.

So with stylists, like, if they're closing out their books, yeah, okay, maybe your perceived value goes up, but it's irrelevant because they can't book, so they're gonna move on to someone they can book with. 100%. I love that you brought that up. And so that's obviously not the way, right?

Right. It's not the way. If your goal is to increase your perceived value, it's not the way. But, like we s- like you said, I love that you brought up the pre-sale, uh, situation, right?

Like, there is an event, right? And as we have seen, and this, I actually, um, uh, I forget what the book is called. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. Let me see what the book is called really quickly.

It's called The Illusion of Choice by Richard Shotten. Um, and it's basically, uh, 16 and a half psychological biases that influence what we buy. And it's an interesting read and it's really engaging and very fast and digestible. It's very cool.

They were talking about how, like, if you want buyers to create some sort of new habit, let's say, then there should be some sort of event that they attach the habit to. So for example, if you want somebody to floss, I guess... This is a stupid example. If you want somebody to start flossing, then you connect the time that they floss to when they brush their teeth, right?

Or when, or you connect it to, you connect a new routine to when you wake up in the morning or something like that. Right. And it's supposed to psychologically be more successful in getting somebody to take action. So having some sort of event, right?

Where Addison Rae tickets, I know that pre-sale is at n- is at 10:00 AM, and if I get on there at 9:45, I'll be able to join the queue and I'll be f- I'll be the, the furthest up in line, right? That makes somebody feel as if there is something that has to be done. Because when we're in our day-to-day lives, right? If there, if this can be done at any time, if I can book an appointment with you at any time, then I'm just gonna be like, "Okay, well, I'll deal with that later," and then I'm gonna completely forget about you, right?

Wow. But if there's a deadline, right? If there's a deadline or a certain event that I have to look forward to, I have to show up for, then I'm obviously going to prioritize it. I'm gonna, gonna get it done in that time and space, right?

Especially for the neurodivergent people out there, I know for a fact you work very well with deadlines. But if it's something that you can procrastinate on or you're like, "Oh, that'll be available tomorrow, I'll deal with it tomorrow," you might never end up actually doing it, right? So true. So having an event around something I think is powerful.

And for example, I've been teaching limited booking ranges for a very long time now, where on a certain day and time, a certain amount or timeframe of appointments become available when they were not available before. And there's a ton of different ways that you can implement it. There's a ton of things that you just take in consideration if you want to do a limited booking range, but it's a great way to help with demand if you are overbooked. But even if you're not super overbooked and you're still growing your clientele, it's still an interesting way to make somebody want to take action, especially if you're not pre-booking as much or if you have a lower maintenance clientele.

So having some sort of event around getting appointments with you I think is powerful. Totally. This also brings me to, a lot of the time, people will get into, like, let's say, DM consultations, right? Or phone consultations even, text consultations.

Maybe you're even just having a conversation with somebody in person, right? And maybe you go back and forth with this person and then you say, "All right, you just let me know if you want to book an appointment or if you have any other questions," or you throw the link at them and you say, "Okay, go ahead and book whenever you need to," and then it's crickets, and then the person doesn't actually take action. The reason why they're not taking action is for, uh, the same exact reasons that I just talked about, is there's no scarcity, there's no demand, there's no events, there's no, there's no accountability in it, right? And so a big tip that I always share with my students is if you ever want somebody to actually take action, whether it be moving from the DMs to actually booking an appointment, whether it be asking for a Google review, whether it be filling out a survey, whatever it may be, whenever you're trying to get somebody to take action, add some sort of deadline or accountability to it.

So, "When can I expect you to do this?" Or, "I don't want this appointment to get booked up, I want you to get it, so could you please do this by..." 5:00 PM, and I'll hold it for you until then. Let me know when it's done."

And that is a very effective way of getting people to take action. 100%. And I love this tip too, because I feel like we've talked about this a few times before, where when a new client is in that consideration phase with you, often they're in that consideration phase with other stylists as well. Like, they're, you know, weighing their options out.

And by you having an event or an incentive or a deadline or any of those types of things that give that urgency and scarcity to the situation, that, by nature, is going to make that client be more likely to move forward with you versus anyone else that they are currently looking at as well. Totally, yes. And then, so going back to, to the question of, let's say I'm in a space in which I want to post availability- Right. because I want to fill up, fill up gaps in appointments, right?

I will be honest with you. As a consumer, when I see, and maybe this is just because I am a business owner and you're a business owner as well, we're service providers. We understand, like, the backend of- Right. having availability, right?

Like, we understand what that feels like, what that looks like. We see other hairstylists post availability. We may perceive it as, "Oh, that person's not booked and busy." Like, so I'll be honest, as a consumer, if I see any business say that they have availability and I can get in this week, I'm like, "Oh, like, why aren't they booked," right?

Right. So, people may be thinking to themselves, new clients who have not had the chance to actually see you and sit in your chair, they may be thinking, "Oh, well, this person's not booked. Like, what's up with that," right? And be a little bit, uh, s-, uh, I don't know, unsure, I guess.

It could add to their uncertainty around making the decision or committing to book with you. It's a valid concern, I think, with wanting to post your availability, but not wanting to seem desperate. And I d- and I honestly, as much as I would love to say to y'all, like, "Don't worry about it, who cares what people think, like, just go ahead and post it," I don't think I'd be an honest human being and business advisor if I was just gonna say that. So, what I'm gonna say instead is, first, making the point of I believe that when it comes to existing clients, I think you're totally safe, for the most part.

Right. I think that with existing clients, you, these people have been able to experience the value of your service, right? And so because they've been able to experience the value of their service, there's not that big of a, uh, uh, gap between their ch- their trust in you, I guess- Mm-hmm. you could say.

And so, they are just happy that they can get an appointment with you this week, right? It's actually a very convenient and an, an admirable thing that they can get in with you soon, and that you have plenty of space for them, right? Now, on the flip side, this could maybe possibly affect your, uh, value or perceived value, because you don't have, like, an event around somebody going ahead and booking. Right.

Um, but I think when it comes to new clients, it becomes a little bit different, because there is more of that gap. Because they haven't had the opportunity to actually experience that value yet. Mm-hmm. And so my biggest tip for anybody that is going to maybe post what your available appointments are is, if you can help it, if you have enough of a base to work with, try to keep those availability posts internal.

So, only send them to your existing clients, and that can be through a close friends story on your Instagram, there's broadcast channels that we can experiment with now. But most importantly, and the one that I would suggest the most, is internal email communication, because I talk about emailing clients all the time. I think it's an excellent way to make sure that you're emailing everybody, all at the same time. And so that way, you're speaking just to the people whose perception won't be as skewed by you having availability, I guess you could say.

Another tip that I have for this is I would, instead of just blasting all of your availability, right, I would instead pick, let's say, three spots that are the most accessible, the most desirable spots, the ones that people are most likely to fill, s- uh, such as evenings and weekends, right? And just advertise those. Mm-hmm. And then what may happen is those spots will book up.

So, then maybe if you're posting on your story, you're doing it in a broadcast channel, you can say, "Okay, these two spots are gone. I have one spot left," right? So, then somebody will go on your booking site and they'll maybe see other availability, even if those three spots are taken, and then they'll be likely to actually book with you, because you're showing people, "Hey, these spots are getting taken up," right? Right.

And because psychologically, the more options that somebody has, the more labor their brain has to do, and the less likely they will actually take action. So, hopefully I summed all of that up in a way that makes sense, Jodi. Do you f- believe that I did? Yes, absolutely.

I love what you said at the end too, especially. Um, one of my favorite quotes is, "A confused mind will always say no," and I think that is the case for any time you're giving clients too many options. So, I feel like that is a really strong point and one to remember. Um, and I think it always comes down too to, like, you know, maybe that strategy works if you a- if you have already inbuilt that true scarcity, but like you said, if you're consistently posting that you have all this availability, then you're, you're almost doing the opposite.

Yeah, right, and yeah, so being consistent about that could actually, like, harm you, I feel- Yeah. like is a little bit of a thing that we can take away from that, right? Yeah. If, if we're posting a shit ton avai- availability every single week, maybe your new clients who have been following you for a minute who are still kind of on the fence may be looking and seeing like, "Why is this person always available," right?

Yeah. Like, do people just not want to come back to them? Like, I think it is honestly, unfortunately, a thought that people may have. Right.

Even if you are awesome. Maybe you just moved to a new area and you're just building that way, right? Like, whatever it may be, like, and this brings me to no matter how booked and busy you are, right? No matter how m- people may perceive you and your availability, that has nothing to do with how worth it you are as a hairstylist.

Because as a human being, even, right, your business, the numbers of your business, the performance of your business, have nothing to do intrinsically about who you are and your skill set and how well you can serve a client. We are unfortunately playing by the rules of capitalism and psychology and human behavior and money, and that is just a ... It's a very unfortunately harmful game for our brains sometimes, and I think it's a very good practice to remember that this is about the business, this is about how the business is being perceived, how my personal brand is being perceived, not about how my worth is as a human being or how good I am as a hairstylist. So I just wanted to put that out there.

100%. I think detaching your worth from your pricing is so necessary. I hate that phrase charge your worth because of that. Like, our pricing has nothing to do with our worth.

I just have one more question I wanted to ask you in terms of scarcity and creating that demand for yourself as a stylist. So what are your thoughts on things like cancellation lists and wait lists even for new clients? Yeah, I think that they're absolutely excellent. So I've been teaching forever.

If you are in a place where, like, taking on a new client feels like it would break you, right, it's a very real place to be in. Instead of saying no new clients, you said it earlier, Jodi, you said it very well, still giving them some sort of pathway I think is very important. However, it should be hopefully a temporary pathway in one way or another, or it needs to be a streamlined process with intention and strategy behind it to hopefully eventually get this person to sit in your chair as soon as possible. Right.

And so when it comes to wait lists and cancellation lists and people signing up for those things, I think they are absolutely excellent. I think they're absolutely essential no matter how booked out you are. No matter how booked out you are. Because it provides your client a solution whe- when you may not otherwise have one.

It helps you enforce boundaries. And when it comes to a wait list, if you have a wait list or if somebody gets a text message and it's like, "Hey, the time and space that you wanted is actually available right now," then it is very effective in getting somebody to jump onto the appointment, because it's an event. It's like, "I got this text. I have this scarce moment in which this appointment is available.

I'm gonna jump onto it." Right? So I would just generally say I absolutely advocate for them no matter what level of business you are or busy you are, um, and they, I think, are a huge part of this conversation for sure. I love that.

And something you said earlier too that I wanted to kind of bring back around is, um, the c- the whole idea of, like, you're creating this demand and you're creating this scarcity, but eventually, like, the more booked out you get and the more clients you have, the more that's gonna kind of multiply, right, that, that potential for referrals and all of those other things. So I think that's always something to think about when we're having the conversation about that demand and the scarcity, because I think sometimes it can feel like a lot for stylists, right? And they're like, "But I'm not Addison Rae." But the thing is that the busier you get, like, that is fully possible in your business, that you can- 100%.

have that type of demand. Absolutely. If there's one person who makes a TikTok about a Le Bubu, then they're reaching, let's say, 100 people, right? But if there's five people who got Le Bubus who are talking to 500 people- Yeah.

that is creating more and more awareness. It's creating more demand. And so maybe you're at the beginning of growing your clientele. Every single client that you have is another opportunity to reach a ton more people, right?

And so don't take that for granted. Obviously make sure that we're making our client experience next level so we can blow these people away, creating an experience that is something that's worth talking about, right, and then also leaning into referral programs that are more modernized in which you can leverage people's, uh, networks not in the same old way that we normally ask them to do it where like, "Oh, tell our, tell your friends to come see me," never works. Nobody's gonna actually do it. How can we get a client, how can we incentivize a client to actually share you and your work with a ton of people all at the same time?

And that's a lot of what I teach about in my programs and I'm looking forward to teaching in the future. But I think it's a great point. Like, you have one client and they have one network of people, right? But the more and more people that come to see you, the more of a massive network and potential that you have, and that multiplies and compounds your momentum over time.

And so the more demand you get, the easier it becomes. It doesn't necessarily mean that you can just coast and hang out, but that's why you see people who grow a really strong foundational clientele just continuously grow year over year over year, is because they have to- so much, uh, momentum and testimonial and social proof and network to pull from. Yeah. So I feel like we talked about a lot of really cool stuff today, Jodi.

Absolutely. My friend, right? And my friend, thank you so much for listening to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. I hope that this episode was insightful for you, my friend, um, and we'll catch you on the next one.

So much love. Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2025 Hunter Donia LLC.