How to Cut Your Application Time in Half by Leading with Confidence w/ J Ladner

Hello, my friends. Welcome back to The Modern Hair Stylist podcast. Today, I have my ... one of my favorite people of all fucking time on the pod, and some of y'all's favorite person of all time on the pod, and that is Mr.

Jay Ladner. What's the tea, Jay? How are you doing today? Hey Slay.

Hey everyone. I'm back. Did you miss me? Aw, I missed you too.

We, uh, very much missed you and we are so excited to have you back today. And Jay, here is the ... here's the real tea, okay? I know you know this, is that the people out here in this industry are begging, pleading, and needing to be more efficient behind the chair, and that is what you're all about.

And I truly believe that this is something that is either not approached or taught at all, or when it is taught, it can not really connect the way that it needs to for a lot of people to actually be able to achieve faster results behind the chair, faster services, while maintaining professionalism and great results at the end of the day. You know what I mean? Yeah. And what I think you do really well is you blend those two things together.

You still maintain the quality of the services and the, uh, guest experience that we're offering and giving people, bu- but simultaneously make it so people are more productive and efficient and, uh, taking care of people as quickly as they possibly can to be able to make more money, to create a convenient experience for clients, right? And I just really, really appreciate that, uh, that you do that for people. And you personally have done that for me, um, being a stylist behind the chair and a lot of my students as well. And so that's why I'm really excited to dive into that topic for the people listening to this on The Modern Hair Stylist podcast, and excited for you to be diving into that as being a guest educator at The Modern Hair Stylist Tour in the San Francisco date.

And so, I'm really excited to give people a little bit of a preview of your vibes and your tea when it comes to efficiency here on the podcast today. So, are you ready to get into it? Listen, everyone. Brace for impact.

Seat belts are not included. Okay? Let's go. Let's go.

Jay, do you mind, just in case there is somebody listening to this right now who does not know who you are and what your tea is- Mm-hmm. could you give us a little bit of an intro for us? For sure. I'm Jay Ladner.

I'm a hairstylist, just like you. Um, I just happen to run my mouth a lot- ... so that's why you probably, like, see me out and about. Um, but listen, I've been in the industry for 15 years, and there's a lot of things that I have found out along the journey is ...

Starting with the license, going into, you know, salon management, then I owned a salon for eight years. I sold that for a profit, and I moved to Los Angeles. That's where it ... But education has been a part of my ecosystem within my life my entire career.

I was very fortunate to be raised through Paul Mitchell, and education there was so heavy in the forefront because of my first boss, and then being a national educator for them, owning a salon, and then building, um, my business online on social media has taken me very far and wide. Now I represent Oligo Professional as their chief brand ambassador, and the director of education of Fast Foils, the newest innovation within the fast ... the foil category. And there's not been innovation in over 30 years, so hey, hey.

Efficientity- Hey, hey. All of the brands that I align myself with, align themselves with efficiency. So, it's an easy yes for me for these brands. It's an easy yes.

And I just love showing up as someone who has been fortunate enough to see a lot in this industry and to lead big old teams, and what I have found is that the quickest way to have freedom and profit is you as the technician becoming more efficient. But in the very forefront, we gotta check in on that heartbeat, and we got to check it in to your confidence, and the believability that you could go the distance. That's the magic, and that's the missing piece, is what I have found traveling the world and then speaking to stylists, and we are more alike than we are different, and w- I ... It's like I have the same conversation over and over, and that's okay.

I will keep having it until every single soul awakens. So, that's a little bit about me, but we'll get into the tea. Yeah, we'll get into the tea, and I think that was a beautiful intro. And I must just say, as a admirer of you and a student of yours for a long time, and somebody who is friends with you as well, I, I must say to everybody that, like, Jay ...

And I say it all the fricking time, you're probably like 100th time, it'll be like that, but like Jay genuinely inspires the hell out of me because he is such a heart-centered educator. Like you really give a shit about making an impact in the industry and the world. You're not doing this for yourself, you're doing this for everybody. And it's just so freaking cool to see, and we just really appreciate how you show up.

And you're the type of person that I love to learn from, that I love to p- put on my platform, and that I love to recommend people to. And so, it's an honor to have you as a part of my world in any way, shape, or form. So, we are very grateful to have you. And so, speaking of getting- Yeah.

into the tea, I'm gonna ask you my very first question for this, all right? Yeah. So, my very first question is, is let's say that somebody's listening to this right now-Or how about this? When somebody comes to you and they're struggling with their efficiency behind the chair, what do you think is one of the biggest things that you commonly see is holding somebody back from being able to accomplish services in a faster manner?

So I love this question, so thank you. And Hunty, I love you so much, and you inspire me as well. I had to get that out. Um, but here's the thing.

We believe what we were told in 2012. We believe it so much that we are so blinded by the evolution of technology, of products, of j- just everything. E- Everything. The evolution of more clarity.

Yes. So what I have found is that because in hair school, we're going way back, so ... And this is still happening still to this day in hair school. You have to build your credibility off of the back of a babylight.

That's how you build your credibility. The more you install foils, the better you become. So they're not gonna go, "Hey, Hunty. You're new in hair school.

Do 12 bold weaves." That does nothing for you, right? So the babylight is the foundation of understanding, how do I connect my hands and my mind to speak for my hairstylist heart? So we pack it and stack it, right, in hair school, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

And that is our only perception, and I feel like, one, that's a disservice. Once you get into the salon, to allow that to be your safety net. It- it comes to a point in your career where the babylight is a crutch. The babylight is playing it safe, and you need a massive amount of babylights to make any impact.

But I don't know about you, you have one shot in this life. And I'm a bold weave slice baddie that I want to do things that are intentional that allow me to really deliver exceptional results within my business, and to allow to trust the credibility that are within my hands, my mind, and the hairdresser heart. That's one, right? We allow the babylight to transcend within our business, and it's a cop-out.

It means that you're lacking any curiosity moving forward. You're playing it safe because not everyone wants a full foil babylight that house down boots. They don't. And what I am seeing now with what our clients are walking in and saying is they want longevity, so that babylight doesn't have a place.

Mm-hmm. Right? So one, trusting that your curiosity stopped at hair school. That's number two.

So babylight syndrome, there's an epidemic. Number two is your curiosity stopped, and that's okay. That's okay. But right now, if you're listening to this, think about it.

I'm calling it out like an umpire because I've been there. Yes, I've been there and I found the secret and the way out. So it's curiosity, number three, and I know we're gonna get into this. If your service menu looks like a Cheesecake Factory...

I'm gonna say that again. If your service menu- ... looks like a Cheesecake Factory menu, no wonder you are burnt out, stressed out, overworked, undercharging, because you have forced your clients to go on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram to become a hairstylist. They don't care.

They don't wanna know what a balayage with a tip out and root tap and a da-da-da and a booshing and a bop-bop. You know what I mean? They don't. So, so here is my added bonus for that.

Streamlining the experience, right? I look at my service menu, it's three options. Now, what we can dig deeper, but I'm just gonna give you the forefront of it, it's depth, contrast, coverage. In my pre-consultation form, that shows a photo of the idea of what it is.

Depth, contrast, coverage. They play Pictionary. They match to their hair dreams what I am offering with a price before they even talk to me. So now, they upload their befores, they upload their afters, and then they select what vibe they're in, and the starting price is given to them.

So now, through my consultation, they're telling me what they love, what they don't like, what they wanna edit, ba-boo-woo-woo-woo. So they're more confident in me to make the decision. Number four, you're not making decisions. And that is the magic of being a hairstylist.

Yes. Owning the decision within your personal life and your business. And when both of those credibilities collide, you are a rich bitch. Period.

You hear me? In your spirit and in your business. Yes. Okay.

But- You are speaking my language. And I think you know that you're speaking my language. Um, uh, yes, just so many things. Uh, my first takeaway from what you said was I love ...

You said, like, in doing things with intention, and I think it's so true that we get wrapped up in our go-to placements or our go-to techniques or the same thing, the same way that we go about it on every client for this specific situation.And I think what's magical and what I actually, I feel like really started happening with me once I started taking your education, even years ago, was that I started to learn how different placements of just one foil on one part of the head would make a certain type of impact. And now I feel empowered with the tools to be able to create custom placements for every single- Yup. one of my clients, right?

Like, and it's not like you're not giving people, you know, a baseline great placement to use. But I, uh, not- so I have that as, like, a go-to if it's gonna work. But I- I'm also empowered with the knowledge to customize it and tailor it to my client's needs, and that makes me feel so much more creative, so much more empowered. And I don't feel like I have to add a katrillion fricking foils in there to make it happen, which is so beautiful.

And I think that that's what happens when you empower yourself with the knowledge, with somebody who's equipped to empower you with that knowledge. And then when you show up with intention, and you're willing to get a little bit uncomfortable and do things a little bit differently on every single one of your clients. Yeah. So I absolutely love that.

Funny you said that we need to be making more decisions. So I just ran, um, a study across the United States to both women and men, majority women, who visit uni- uh, who visit salons in the United States of all age ranges, small towns, big towns, et cetera, et cetera. And one of the biggest takeaways that I got from the survey was be- there was a lot of people who said, "I wish that the stylist would just tell me what the hell I need and just do what they need to do," or that they would give me more suggestions, et cetera, et cetera. So at a recent class that I had, a recent business class, I was telling people, like, "We need to reclaim our leadership of our business and our leadership over our chair and be the leaders for our clients."

And I love that that is the message that you're into right now, because I'm very much on the same page. And that's the type of people that I want in my chair, the people who want me to just do what I need to do to make them beautiful, 'cause we know what the fuck we're doing. And we have not been doing this for just a day at this point, right? Oh, yeah.

And then lastly, the service menu. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like, very much yes. Been preaching this for a long time.

And I think that what's beautiful about having a simplified service menu is that, again, you get to customize what this person gets within this very simple framework that makes it easy- Yes. for the client to understand, that makes it so they don't feel like they have to have this responsibility to nitpick exactly what you do. Because at the end of the day, that is our jobs to lead and decide how we approach it. So, fucking love everything you said about that.

Very much so. Very much on the same page as you. Yeah. Yeah.

And also, I wanna add a couple things that- Yeah. checked in with you. What you just said, which, like, fires me up. It just, like, revs me up, is that, listen, it's, everyone listen, it's never too late to adapt and evolve.

It is never too late to adapt and evolve and to get back into curiosity. This year and beyond, I'm all about bold statements. I- I have now realized to get your attention, if I am not saying what it truly is, w- I'm doing a disservice as a mentor to every stylist in this industry. So when I make these bold statements, they do hit you sometimes in the core if that is your reality, and I'm not doing that to place you in shame.

But you know what? Shame also gets you to win the game. So, it- it wakes you up. So I- there- there's a level to it.

If- if it's hitting you too hard, we'll get you out of it quicker. But if it's a- I want it to be awakening. So my bold statements I place upon you, so then you are inspired to make the bold statements within your life, in your business. And I- I keep talking about life credibility.

And as a hairdresser, the heartbeat of you was chosen for you to serve. And I feel like we're always questioning that peace, because limiting beliefs were placed upon us by liars that we still believe. So there's also this tethered heartstring moment that you have to tap into, and it's almost you have to visit it first, right? So a- a lot of times when I'm seeing someone move and shake, they're negotiating with themselves that, are they worth it?

Do they- do they believe they can have ownership and profit? And can they be distracted with freedom, right? That there's a lot a- an- and I know that place. My emotional home is the place that broke.

My emotional home is abandonment. So I see you. But through self-work and therapy and truly choosing and making a choice to be me, because for so long, Hunter, you know this, for so long I was told to shut up. "Don't do that.

Don't twirl down the street. Don't wear that pump. Don't..." Right?

That- that's not okay. So finally I made the choice to say, "This is authentically me, and I can butch it up like I am today, or tomorrow I can be in a dress. But whatever I'm giving and serving is me." Right?

And a lot of worlds start to shift. So I feel like there's, like, giving yourself freedom to adapt and evolve, and to allow yourself that curiosity to, like, lean in.... and to remain curious. But one thing I will say is that in that House of Ladner, we wrap shit up.

Okay? And we do it instantly. Yes. I absolutely love everything that you said, very much so.

And I think- Oh, thank you. that goes back to, like, if you are... If there... If you do have some limiting beliefs that you have right now that make you a little bit apprehensive to take charge of the chair, I think everything that you just said a-a-applies to that.

Is there anything else that you could say to that person that is like, "Okay, I wanna be the one who is taking control and is the one who sits down with the client and says, 'I hear you. Th- I see what you like and what you dislike, and I have a vision for you, and this is what my recommendations are.'" Instead of s- like, just walking into the appointment saying, "Okay, what are we gonna do today?" And expecting your client to tell you exactly what to do, which just- Yes.

is not helpful for anybody, I feel like, at the end of the day. What would... What else would you say to that person? Uh, okay.

Okay, so if you're feeling like you're lost at the wheel and you're actually the passenger princess and your client is in the driver's seat, and well, "Hi, close the biz." If that... No, I'm kidding. We're gonna wake you up.

So here we are. It goes to the forefront of who you are and what you stand on business, on 10 toes down in your business. Yes? So that means, what are your core values and what do you deliver and what do you promise?

You know the quickest way... And Hunter, you're great at this from day one that I have met you on Clubhouse, is having the consultation before they're even contacting you. What are the rules of engagement in your business? It goes back to systems.

Right? And I know you rebel with a beauty cause listening. I get it. We wanna run away from systems.

We're rebels. Right? Okay, cool. We can do that in our placement.

But within our business, this is serious. Okay? So we're in serious business. So it goes back to the consultation, the roadmap and your rules of engagement to your clients.

So I feel like, first of all, if you don't have that, let's go back there. Le- let's go back there, clear it up. Brene Brown says it best, "Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind."

Right? So clear up your delivery system. What do you promise? How do you do it?

So for me, what that does for me is that I'm already pre-consultationing, pre-consultationing with them. So when they walk in, I go, "Sarah Beth, I love that you wanted to contrast today. How are you feeling about that? I also know that in my consultation that you answered, and thank you for being so truthfu- truthfully honest, thank you for leaning all the way in with me, because that helps me deliver your end result, is you don't really like a solid face frame and you keep getting it.

So let me know why you don't like that." Right? I need to understand the, the chemistry within her thoughts and her connections, right? So I'm allowing myself this no-room-for-error system that allows me then to say, "I love it.

I just want you to sit back, relax, get on your phone. You want a mocktail, a cocktail, I got you." Right? Whatever that system looks like in your salon.

"And I just want you to trust that I got you and this is a journey. So I'm gonna get you to where I think you need to be for this vibe." Not once do I tell them, "I'm doing a baby light, a bold weave, round to the head, I'm doing four foils." It's none of their business.

And guess what? Years ago, when I adapted the depth/contrast/coverage, it built more confidence, more loyalty, and more money. Because now I promised them, a non-negotiable for them, that if depth... If they book depth that's an hour and a half, no more, no less.

If it's contrast, two hours. If it's coverage and we're changing their identity, three hours max. And if I run over, I have to fall on the sword. But because I made promises and they've made promises, I keep my word, they keep their word.

Not once do they dictate my decision. Yeah. So that from the forefront, it's clearing up the service menu to where they're not dictating your decision. Yeah.

I hope that helps. I think that's absolutely beautiful. Very much amplifying what I would love to be into people's heads. Very much so.

And I- Yeah. must say, as an educator myself, it's also very inspiring to hear you talk about, um, not being afraid to say, like, the direct message and be- being... not being afraid to, like, to say the damn statement, because I need to do more of that. I feel like the more and more and more I've been into this, the less and less and less I show up and I do that 'cause I'm, like, scared to do it.

But I need- Yeah. to start doing it more boldly and often. So thank you for that reminder. Hunter, you're welcome.

And I wish I would have started this 10 years ago. Yeah. I wish I would have just called it out from what I was living, my truth, which we are more alike than we are different. Yeah.

And as a hairstylist, that is so special in our community. Not a lot of companies and organizations and career paths can say they are more alike than they are different. Right. In this industry, it's so special.

So I feel like it is our call to action. And then, and then I like to take it further and say, once you're in my course, you better run that fucking mouth- ... to your friends. Yeah.

Because it's a disservice if we're not passing it on. Right. I don't care that they don't sign up to my course. You did.

Be a good friend and pass it on. Yeah. And hairstylists should be doing the same thing with their hair business, right? With their clients.

You're doing a disservice. That's the tea. I actually just was at a business conference for hairstylists this past weekend, and I was in a class of a, uh, another mentor of mine, and she's just freaking awesome, and she was basically, like, teaching stylists who may not naturally be business oriented to be business oriented. And one of the biggest points that she made, and I think this is what really made me click the business side of things and care about the business side of things from the beginning of my hair career, um, was like, you're doing a, the client a disservice by not caring about the business or doing the slightly discomfort or uncomfortable things that you know will grow the business, because like you just said, you...

How many times have we taken... we've seen some work that came into our chair that was just, like, not that awesome? Not to bash any other hairdressers, like, that's not what I'm trying to do here or the point that I'm trying to make here, but like you said, you used the example of you get, you keep getting a face frame, a bold face frame highlight, and it's happening over and over and over again, and nobody's changing that for you and you don't like it, right? So you, my friend listening to this, like, you know that you're capable, or maybe you don't, but we know that you're capable of being able to take very good care of people, and you're doing a disservice by not putting yourself out there, by not allowing people to find you, and not asking your clients for the referrals, or to post the picture of their hair on their social media or whatever it may be.

So I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Now, let me ask you this, Jay. You're gonna be coming to San Francisco.

And you're gonna be teaching a in-person class for me and all the people who are going to be at the Modern Hairstylist Tour, including you, my friend, who's listening to this, hopefully, if you were, if you were, if you were cool. Okay? So tell us a little bit about what people can expect from what you'll be demoing and sharing in that class. Okay.

First and foremost, it's my comedy set for HBO Max. So do not want to miss it. Okay, baby? It's my time to shine.

Um, you're gonna have fun, one. Okay? But serious. Serious.

You're gonna feel seen, and you're definitely gonna hear fuck, you're gonna feel heard. And I, I, I want you to know that what I'm gonna showcase to you is an actionable, no overworking, no overfoiling, confident roadmap that you can literally take into the salon the next day. And if you're listening to this and you are a go with, or you're a part of the amazing community of baddie stylists with Hunter and you have experienced it, it is a disservice if you not, if you are not speaking up about it, because it is moving the needle forward within how we install our foils and our color and the way we deliver exceptional results. Because listen, efficiency is not lazy in this house.

There you go. We are, we are petite. We are installing with passion and purpose, and our choices are so clear. We trust the credibility of what our legacy is and what it will be.

We color for our future self. Hear me loud and clear. We install these foils for the future self, the one who sees more clarity, more freedom, more profit without adding hours to your business. I'm gonna show you how to become 25 to 50% more efficient.

Think about what that just does to your body. Yeah. I'm not talking money. I'm talking what that does to your magical temple you were placed on Earth with.

It makes it more easy. So when I tell you I'm not like these other girls- ... it's not. There you go.

Okay? So I'm ready for you to have an awakening that is transformable and actionable. Like, you will the next day be installing 22 foils for a full coverage bond. Period.

And you are then going to have to sit down in shame and apologize to yourself because you were doing the most and getting the least, and the next day, after you see me, you're doing the most precise, thoughtful things and getting the most. Hell yeah. I'm bought in, bitch. I'm selfishly very excited for this class, honey.

Okay. So if you've thought about it, stop thinking about it, baby. Click, buy it. I'll see you there.

Jay, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you for being a friend. Thank you for inspiring the industry and helping people get more efficient and just being the beautiful person that you are. Um, I'm so excited to see you in San Fran, and for you, my friend, listening to this, if you're hyped up and you're ready to get more efficient behind the chair, but also in your business as well, because I'm teaching you how to use AI, how to make sure that you are spotting the little blind spots and time suckers in your business that are holding you back from actually achieving the success and the potential that's possible for you.

If you want all that shit, then I highly recommend that you join us at the Modern Hairstylist Tour, San Francisco date specifically. Jay will be there. I'm gonna leave the information in the show notes of this episode. I'm also gonna leave, uh, Jay's website and Instagram in the show notes as well.

Highly recommend that you go check Jay out if you aren't already following. And, Jay, I love you so much and I appreciate you so much. I love you. You're freaking amazing.

All over you, hunty. Okay. Thank you for tuning into the Modern Hairstylist podcast. Peace out, girl scout.

Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2025 Hunter Donia LLC.