How to Talk to Your Clients About Controversial Topics (Laws, Politics, Religion etc.)

Let me guess, you are a hustling, bustling hairstylist behind the chair, working so hard to build a beautiful career for yourself, one that gives you time, freedom, and energy to spend with yourself, your family, and your friends. But you feel like you're always working in your business even when you're not behind the chair. My name's Hunter Donia, and I help you automate your systems and implement really beautiful strategies so you can grow your business without the overwhelm. And this is the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

Hey, friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. You've tuned into Hair By Hunty ASMR. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Okay, having too much fun. Hello, friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. Okay, wait, hold on.

Today, Caitlin... What's up, Caitlin? How are you? I'm doing good, friend.

How are you doing? I'm doing freaking good. Today, friend, we are gonna be talking about something that is honestly quite stressful. Yesterday, I got a message from somebody.

I got a message from somebody who I really know and really love, somebody who has been kind of, um, supporting me from the get, ever since I started to get into education, once I started to speak out loud ab- about what I feel and what I think about the industry and business and all this stuff. And she is in this intensely emotional state right now and sensitive s- state right now about current events in the world, and not just because of what may be happening right now at the time that we're recording this, but because of the consistent buildup and flows of all of the heavy shit we've dealt with in the past two years. And it's, if it's not one thing, it's the next, and it's not like the thing before goes away when the next thing comes, you know? We live in a crazy time in the world, and she is just so unmotivated and so scared of going into her salon space and having to confront these conversations about these really hard times that we're going through and these possibly controversial topics of these world events.

She is absolutely terrified of having to exert any more energy than she is already personally exerting in her personal life in the way that she feels about it and the way maybe she's grieving over it. And she, she, she is so nervous about having to give even more energy in her workspace, and she doesn't... and she doesn't really know how to fully handle it. And it was really wild because we've had this episode that we were gonna record.

We've had it planned for, I think, that you messaged me yesterday. Did you message me yesterday to do this? You messaged me yesterday, and I completely did not bring this up to you at all, and I got this message. So, I just think it's kind of wild, and I think it's going to be hopefully good for people.

So, I mean, if you, y'all from that story, if you have not, uh, guessed it, we're gonna be talking about how to handle controversial and emotionally heavy, um, topics in your salon space with clients. And I wanna preface this by saying that I am by no means end-all-be-all with this. You know, I, I'm great at hard conversations, I would say. I think I've had some good experience with c- hard conversations with clients and just people in general, and I can teach that day in, day out, all day, every day.

However, every single human being is going to be so different. Every single conversation is going to be so different no matter how you approach it. And what I want everybody to realize is, is that I'm, I'm a human being, Caitlin's a human being, you're a human being, and your client is a human being, and we all have some sort of belief, we all have some sort of emotional attachment to that belief. And no matter how you approach things, it's still going to be unpredictable, it's still going to be sometimes painful and uncomfortable, but that's the world we live in, you know?

This is the life that we've been given, this is the society that we live in, and sometimes there is uncomfortability. And that just comes with being in a business where you are literally working with people every day, having very intense personal conversations. I don't think any other industry probably has to confront this issue the same way that we do, you know? Uh, would you agree with me?

Like, I, I don't think bec- because we create such intense emotional relationships that seem to run deeper, like, this can just be really difficult. And, like, the amount of time that we spend with these people in our chairs, right? It, I feel like it could get really difficult. So, without further ado, let's get into it.

So, Caitlin, you're my, you're my, my lord and savior . Y- you're my angel. You make sure that I stay on track here. And so tell me, like, where do you think we should start with this conversation to get into it?

Um, well, you already prefaced with, like, saying that we're obviously not experts and, like, we're all humans and all of the things, so I think that another really good place to start and kind of use as our jumping off point is talking about that it's, it's, this is gonna be situational for every single person, but in my personal opinion, it is likely going to be in your benefit to not start these types of conversations, and I will let you kind of go from there, Hunter.Starting with, like, should you bring this stuff up, right? And we'll talk about social media and your brand in general in a little bit. But first, let's talk about, like, your actual in-person relationship and conversations with your clients.

So, I think from a business perspective, it's always best to not bring this type of stuff up from the bat, or, like, initiate these types of conversations because obviously it can cause a lot of issues. And, you know, you are rendering a service, you are being paid to render a service, and you are already exerting so much emotional energy that you don't need that extra burden. Now, the other thing that I wanna preface with is, you know, this conversation gets a little complicated when it comes to who you are and what privilege you carry. Um, and we'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment.

But first off, so, so just be... As I'm speaking, please who-whoever you're listening to this, please be aware that I'm aware of that and I'm not taking... And I'm very much taking that into consideration and you should too. But, in general, I think that it is best to not be the initiator of these conversations.

And it could actually make your client feel extremely uncomfortable the same way that you may feel uncomfortable when somebody brings this type of stuff up. And even if that person is possibly, quote-unquote, "on the same side as you or in agreeance with you," it could still make them uncomfortable. I was actually at a dinner recently with, with this woman from the UK. And, and, like, and, like, it was a big dinner table, like, a bunch of people.

And I'm assuming that, I'm assuming that with this woman from the UK, I'm assuming that she, I'm assuming that she probably doesn't have the same weariness about political conversations as possibly we do as America. Like, she wasn't considering that, like, not everybody at the table might be in agreeance with what she was saying, you know? And so she was saying... She was, she was coming from a very, um, progressive, liberal standpoint and she was like, "I can't believe you Amer-" I cannot do a British accent, so I'm not even gonna try.

She was like, "I cannot believe you Americans are putting up with this bullshit." Like, et cetera, et cetera. And I was, like, looking around the table and I was like, "Oh my God. Like, what if somebody, like, doesn't agree with her?"

And even though I completely agreed with everything that she was saying, it still made me really uncomfortable because these types of conversations we're taught to not have and put under the table, and also they just can cause a lot of discourse and stressful, emotional discourse, right? Like, that's, like, not, not even fun to get into. And so, you know, I don't want people to... I w- I just wanna make sure that people are being super aware of th- how they are affecting the emotions of your clients because it will affect the success of your business and affect the impact that you're making every single day, right?

Um, people are trying to come to the salon to relax, to escape, like, the bullshit of life and you are a form of escapism. And if you want to be a successful business, especially through hard times, if you can be the escape, then that is a brilliant, beautiful business model . Like, like, truly, like, it's sho- like, if... It's shown through hard times, people will spend more money on things where they can escape, right?

And so you can be that escape, but if you bring these things up by yourself and you start the conversations, then that can very much harm your business from the business perspective. So I think that it's best that we don't start the conversations and, um, we talk more about what happens when the conversations are brought to you. What do you think, Kaylin? Yeah, I completely agree.

I, of course, have my own, like, personal opinions on all of this as well, and I feel like we're very much in alignment with most of these things. But, like, I... Confrontation is not comfortable and when you're doing that behind the chair with somebody that is potentially gonna be in your chair for three plus hours , like, it's... It's such a hard thing.

And I, I would just let your client personally, in my opinion, lead the way and if it gets brought up, fine, and we'll talk about that as well, like, what to do if these types of conversations do get brought up. Yes. And, I mean, you bring up a good point. Like, you should be letting your client steer the way of the conversation anyway.

Like, that's the whole point is, like, this is about them, it's not about you, so why are we starting conversation topics that, especially such as that one, it, like, doesn't make any sense. Like, you... There are so many other ways that you can start a conversation for getting the conversation rolling versus bringing something like that up. Let's say your client does want to talk about current events.

Is it okay to talk about them? Is it okay to voice your opinion? Is it okay to say you don't wanna talk about them? I think that it's important for us to address all of those.

Yeah. What do you think? I think it's okay, honestly, to do any of that, personally. Like, it entirely depends on you as a individual person.

I personally have absolutely no problem voicing my opinion if somebody asks me for it. I... Always in a respectful way, of course. But I know some people aren't comfortable doing that, and you might wanna stay, like, more neutral or you're just not comfortable talking about it, period.

Like, you might be... Uh, for example, like, you might be somebody that lives in a very conservative state and you are the only liberal type of person, which was a direct personal example. I lived in a extremely conservative state and I felt very lonely in my beliefs, so it always felt like I was dancing around topics. And, yeah, it was eno- my whole own personal journey, but I do think it's okay to talk about or to, to approach those from any of those points.

How exhausting. Big empathy to you and anybody who has to, who has to... Who feels the same. Big empathy.

I, I, I couldn't even... So exhausting. I'm so sorry that you had, that you had to deal with that.So to your, to your question, is it okay to talk about it, is it okay to say that you're not uncomforta- that you are uncomfortable with it, is it okay to oppose, et cetera, et cetera?

Absolutely, yes. Like, I think that this conversa- these conversations can 100% be on the table, and you have complete a complete right to not have the conversation if you don't want to. Right? It's just going to be all about, and this is, this is kind of how I put this in my perspective.

You have two options. You can either influence change, right? You can possibly have the opportunity and take the opportunity to influence change and maybe change somebody's mind and change the world, possibly, in a very small way by participating in the conversation whether that person is opposing or whether they are with you or not. Either way, you have the option to effect change.

Or you have the option to not exert any more emotional energy, not, um, risk any damage of the client, uh, stylist relationship, and, you know, get that stuff out of the way and try and steer the conversation away, and you, you can do that in two ways. You can just distract and move to the next topic, or you can straight up say, "Kathleen, I'm just, honestly, like, this to- this topic is a little bit uncomfortable for me, and, um, I'm not sure that you and I would have a possibly conductive conversation arou- around it just because I possibly have opposing views to you. So in order to just preserve our relationship and just have an enjoyable rest of our appointment, how do you feel about the weather today?" You know, something like that.

I think that's a very acceptable way of going about things. And I will say with those two options that there's no judgment there. There's nothing, there's not, not one is wrong, not one is right. You know, you, you have the, the option to influence change or you have the option to protect yourself and avoid risk.

Right? Those are two options that you have, and there's not a right or wrong. Now, what you wanna take into consideration, and this is the, this is the but, is the privilege that you may hold, no matter who you are... Every, all of us have one type of privi- privilege and one type of way.

I- i- if you have some sort of privilege, right, consider the power of impact that you have with the privilege that you carry. Right? And consider, you know, the voices that aren't in the room or the voices that would otherwise not be listened to around the topic versus you could be the one who is listened to, um, because of the privilege that you carry, right, by that person, and you can actually make an impact, right? And so I think that when certain things are brought up and you have the privilege of not only being able to make change and impact, you also have the privilege to stay silent because it doesn't affect you, I would just say take in consideration the privilege and the power that you have and how you want to show up and if you want to make influence and make change.

But if this is, if we, if we're talking about something where you don't have the privilege or you don't have the responsibility or whatever it may be, oh my gosh, like, you are totally okay to just not engage in the conversation and share that you are completely unc- that you are uncomfortable with the topic and to keep it moving. Even if it's not, like, something political or controversial, no matter what the conversation is, if it's making you uncomfortable, you have full... I mean, I don't need to give you permission, but you have permission from me to, like, keep it rolling, keep it moving, and redirect the conversation. So what do you think about that, Kaylin Yeah, I completely agree, and I, I think it's important to remember that you are the service provider and this is a person, a guest in your space, in your business.

So you do have, like, I don't wanna call it the upper hand, but you do have the upper hand that you can control where the conversation goes, and you have to really step into that power when it does come to these tough conversations sometimes. But just really keep that in mind, like, you're allowed to not wanna say something, you're allowed to even just say something like, "You know, I'm not educated enough on this yet to really have an opinion, so I prefer to just, like, not talk about it." Or, I mean, it's even okay to say, "You know what? I am at, like, my max.

My, my... I have zero energy left to give to this kind of conversation." That's totally fine. It's totally respectful.

Re- respectable? Respectable. And, yeah, that's, that's my feelings. Yeah, I completely agree.

And what I would suggest that people do is go back, after this episode, go back and listen to the Speaking Grief episode that I did with my good friends, Kristen and Lindsey. Speaking Grief is a fantastic program that I have been done- doing some work with over the past year or so that teaches people how to have hard conversations around grief, but the way that those communication skills, like, bleed into every other part of your life is, like, insane, and it teach- And they were specifically speaking to hairstylists on the podcast, so I highly recommend after this episode, if you're looking to figure out the verbiage and the communication and how to go about this stuff, go and listen to that episode. It will truly be so helpful for you and give you better verbiage for that situation. And if I can just add, too, like, I just wanna, like, double down on that 'cause Speaking Grief, I've had the opportunity to, uh, listen to them in a longer form as well, but, um, even just the podcast episode has completely changed how I approach people's feelings, even my own.

So highly, highly recommend. Thank you for bringing that up. I completely agree. It's completely helped me so much in the way that I approached my life.

Like, it's truly wild. So highly recommend that you check that out. Now let's talk about if... Unless I'm jumping ahead, Kaylin, stop me if I am.

But let's talk about what about, like, posting? What about you as a brand leaning into your core values or, like, sharing your own opinions about possibly controversial things? Here is my tea, bitch. Okay, here is my tea.

I have never in my entire life, every single time, and I say this all the time, but I... Every single time I have leaned deeper into who I am and what I believe in for the greater good of life, every single time, I have always come out successful on the other end. I have always had people rally around me, and the right people rally around me, and I've always repelled the people who I did not want in my life in the first place. And, you know, you live in a...

Well, you listening to this, my friend, you live in a great time. Actually, statistically right now, the way that consumers are behaving, they want to know your core values. They will shop with their core values. If you feel like showing up in a public platform with your brand and sharing your opinion about very real, very intense topics, and you have these core values and beliefs around them, if you think that sharing that is going to lose you money, destroy your business, et cetera, et cetera, it might, if your opinion is not cool with the better good of human life, sure.

However, I mean, if what you believe in is truly, like... if what you believe in is truly like if you feel in your soul and in your gut that this is the right thing, the right people will rally around you, and you will be more successful on the other end. And it's not worth living a life where you stay silent out of fear. It's way more worth living a life where you are sharing exactly who you are and what you believe in because you want to make the world a better place.

And again, people will rally around you, especially in business, especially nowadays. I don't think that this was always the case, but I think we are in a rare space moving forward where this is something that is actually almost... I'm gonna even go as far as saying this is almost kind of required now. Literally, google it.

I'm not even kidding. Google it. Consumer behavior. People are shopping with their core values.

Like, hardcore. I know that if I'm supporting a business nowadays, I wanna know what they believe in. I know that over the pandemic, like, I would be... if some...

if a space was, like, anti-masker, then I would not shop there. Like, I wouldn't go there. And not only would I not go there, but I will not come back, ever. I will not come back, ever.

And guess what? That might be great for them. They might not want my business. They might not want my money.

So good for them. Okay, fucking share whatever you want to share. All right? But for me, as the consumer, I'm gonna go shop at the spaces that, that believe the same things I believed, were on the same mission that I was on, right, and I believe were trying to do something for their greater good, period.

So don't be afraid to be that person. Don't be afraid to be that person at all. I share my shit all the motherfucking time, okay? And I speak to a wide range of people.

I speak to people literally, literally internationally, right? And so at this point, like with my social and, like, the audience that I'm speaking to, where a lot of hairstylists are speaking more regionally, you know? And so I'm speaking to people of all backgrounds, all beliefs, all different spaces, and it's, it's still scary for me to share some of that stuff. And, and, and once I share the first thing, you know, and I, like, get out of my fear, and I share the first thing because I truly believe it, and I see the positive reaction to it, and people saying, like, "Thank you so much for talking about something that other people are scared to talk about," like, it just validates that I'm doing the right thing, you know?

So that's my tea on that. Post all you want, friend I couldn't agree more, and I'm gonna shoehorn in my own personal experience and opinion as well, because I... this is one that I feel really strongly about, and, like, if you know me, I, I love Instagram. Like, that is, like, my favorite thing to do is to be on Instagram.

I firmly believe in staying true to yourself on your platform. I don't think that you need to be, like, super disrespectful. There is a fine line. But when I was still Behind the Chair, I made the choice to fully step into myself, to stop being the, like, people-pleasing hairstylist that's, like, just, like, very, like, fake kind.

And I started posting about the fact that I support the LGBTQ community, I'm part of the LGBTQq community. I support all of these different things, and it completely changed my business, like night and day. And it's amazing that, like, your people just flock to you, and it's so... it's just the most incredible thing to know that you have such supportive people in your corner.

And it's totally okay that you might be losing business from people that don't hold the same beliefs, because there are people that do have the same beliefs that will still give you their money. You're, sure, losing business, but it's not necessarily business that I think you want. I love that. End rant.

Great point, Kaylin. I completely agree with everything you said, and I am going to lean on you to help us bring this home. Did we miss anything? Did we talk about...

Did we not talk about anything? Like, what's the tea? Um, I would say maybe let's just touch really briefly on, like, uh, maybe a type of etiquette. Like, if you do want to post your views on social media, totally fine, but, I mean, still consider at the end of the day that you are a business.

So doing it in a respectful way, I feel like, is very important, and if you wanna touch on that at all. I mean, you tell me. Like, what do you think? I...

Personally, I feel like when it comes to a point where, like, you are, like, w-... using, like, bunch of, like, profane language and it's just getting, like, very intense and emotional, which I don't wanna negate that because we are going through some very intense and emotional times over the last few years. But, do keep in mind that you can still post your beliefs while doing it in a, I don't wanna call it professional, but professional manner, I guess. What I think about sharing and if there is etiquette around sharing as a business, I would say you share whatever the fuck you wanna share how you wanna share it.

However, understand what the consequences are and be comfortable with them, and then do whatever the hell you wanna do. That's what I would say. I would say share whatever the fuck you wanna share, be comfortable with the consequences, understand what they may be, and then do that. 'Cause if that's how you feel, if that is y- is your human experience and that's what you wanna do, then do it as long as you understand the consequences.

However, take in consideration emotional decisions versus rational decisions, and are we playing a short-term game or are we playing a long-term game, right? And then I would just go from there. That's what I would say. So no judgments to anybody who is sharing their human experience and going crazy as their business brand, but then also consider too, are there other spaces where you can do that, right?

Like, does it have to be on your business page or can it be on your personal page, right? Like, like, stuff like that. So that's where I would come from it. You feel, you feel the same way?

Yeah. And if that is the, like, brand that you wanna portray, that's what you should portray. Absolutely. 100%.

The other thing to consider is if you are going to speak out about a topic, okay, or if you are going to come out in support of something, make sure it's not just performative, right? Don't do it because just because you feel like you should be doing it. Don't do it because it's what everybody else is doing. Do it because you truly believe and act it.

You are walking your talk with how, with whatever you're sharing and what you're sharing your core beliefs are, because, and we've talked about this before, if you share that, yeah, you, that you are in support of blank, right, as a business and somebody walks into your business because they are excited that you agree with them and that you are in, uh, alignment with their core values and you don't exemplify the same belief, then you'll be telling a different story and you'll be letting people down, right? And so, you know, if you are gonna be sharing something, make sure that you are doing it because you really feel like that's how you feel and that's what you support and that you are walking your talk with what you're sharing. Finally, um, a great suggestion is when you are sharing things, don't just say, "This is fucked up. We need to do something about it."

Say, "This is fucked up. Here's where you can move your money. Here's where you can sign this petition." So, like, give people actionable steps, right?

Because it's one thing to just share something and it's one thing to actually, um, initiate change or initiate impact, and so I love this tip that Caitlin wrote down for us, which is, "Have resources available to share." So if you're going to be talking about, let's say, gay rights or something like that, right, like, share the, like, share a link to donate to a gay rights initiative. Um, share something where it's a petition to allow whatever else or, right? I think that's a great idea as well too.

So friends, I understand that we live in a very heavy time right now. I understand that approaching these types of conversations can be so scary, so anxiety-ridden, and you're not alone. I know, like I said at the beginning of this episode, we are all human and we're all going through this experience together, and it doesn't just stop at the salon. It, it bleeds into your family, into your friends.

It bleeds into everybody's life right now and moving forward, and I don't think that this is gonna go away anytime soon. People are fed up and crazy shit is happening all the time, and so instead of avoiding what's right in front of you and trying to avoid it at all costs and being scared of it showing up, what I would suggest is, is making a plan and getting really comfortable with how you're going to show up when these conversations happen, right? I think that being proactive versus reactive or avoiding things in the first place is not, um, is not moving anybody forward. It's not helping anybody.

It's not helping anybody around you. It's not helping the cause and it's not helping yourself either. So, um, I hope that this episode gave you the encouragement, the tools, or the inspiration to move forward in a little bit more of a forward way, right? In a way where you can charge forward with a little bit more confidence.

So Caitlin, thank you so much for joining with me, joining me today and h- keeping me on track as, as best as possible. Anytime, friend. Thank you so much, friend, for listening to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. If you wouldn't mind, sister, friends, just really fast, okay, super quick, leave a tiny little five-star review wherever you're listening to this.

And if you're on a platform where you can leave a little testimonial, dude, I'd be in forever debt to you for helping me reach more people just like you and getting these resources out there. Even if you just took a screenshot of you listening to this episode and you posted it on your Instagram story, I would literally love you forever, but I already do, so I would love you, like, two times forever, I guess. So thank you so much for tuning in. I hope this episode was helpful for you, and we will catch you on the next one.

Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2022 Hunter Donia LLC.