LGBTQ+ Inclusivity in Salons & Genderless Pricing

Let me guess, you are a hustling, bustling hairstylist behind the chair, working so hard to build a beautiful career for yourself, one that gives you time, freedom, and energy to spend with yourself, your family, and your friends. But you feel like you're always working in your business, even when you're not behind the chair. My name's Hunter Donia, and I help you automate your systems and implement really beautiful strategies so you can grow your business without the overwhelm. And this is the Modern Hairstylist Podcast.

Hello, friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist Podcast. I am hype for today because on the day that we are recording this, it is the very first day of Pride Month. Yes.

Woo! Woo! Happy Pride. I have my good friend, Kaitlyn, up in this bitch to be recording this with me, and we're gonna be talking all about LGBTQ+ inclusivity in the salon industry.

And we're gonna be talking about... a little bit about genderless pricing, because that flows very well into this topic, and it's something that I know a lot of people can get a little bit confused about. Um, we're gonna be talking about misconceptions around what LGBTQ+ inclusivity actually looks like, and, um, we're just gonna be celebrating Pride together, and, um, making it really relevant to our industry because I am a firm, firm, firm, firm believer that salons and us as hairstylists have the power to create such crazy change, crazy impact, um, in our communities, and we also can be really beautiful safe havens for the LGBTQ+ community. But we have...

if we want to tap into that power properly, if we want to truly, um, make an impact, it has to be done in a responsible, knowledgeable, and intentional way. And so we'll be going over some things today. You know, this isn't necessarily gonna be a master class, like 101, like step-by-step. Um, however, it...

we will be talking about a couple different topics that I think will be helpful for a lot of different reasons. What's up, Kaitlyn? Are you excited to talk about this with me today? I am super, super pumped.

Happy freaking Pride. I could talk about all of this all day long. I feel like we could probably go on and on and on. So I'm just...

I'm here for it. I'm super, super excited. Let's- let's get right into it. Yes, let's get right into it.

So, I don't know, I don't know if you listening to this, my friend, know who Kaitlyn is yet. Okay. We- I- we've introduced her thus far, I believe. Right?

Possibly. But we'll just do like a- a mini little in- reintroduction about Kaitlyn, because she's super special, and I really much... very much appreciate her, and she'll be hanging out with us a lot here on the Modern Hairstylist Podcast, because quite honestly, my friend, I hate speaking to nobody. Okay.

I know that I'm speaking to you. I have you in my mind whenever I'm- I'm recording my podcast, don't get me wrong, but in reality, I'm literally just speaking to myself in my office, and it can just be a little bit lonely sometimes, and it just feels way more authentic to have, um, an amazing person, such as Kaitlyn, to be, uh, chatting with, to record these episodes with. And so Kaitlyn's gonna kind of be helping me co-host, and I'm really excited for her to be a part of the conversation, because she is a brilliant industry professional herself. Um, she is getting into education herself, and she teaches all about marketing on Instagram.

So, yeah. And she does a lot of beautiful work with me, like a lot of, like, behind-the-scenes stuff, and she's just absolutely excellent. So, Kaitlyn, we're happy to have you on here, friend. Aw, thank you so much.

I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, dude. So, tell me. So, Kaitlyn brings the outlines for me, because I'm just ADHD and unorganized and crazy.

So, Kaitlyn, where do you think we should start? Do you think we should start with, like, what LGBTQ inclusivity in salons actually is, and maybe even, like, what it isn't, do you think? Yeah. I'm...

maybe even going, like, a little bit more surface level and just talking about, like, what does inclusivity mean? Mm-hmm. I feel like that would be a really good place to start, and then we can jump right into, like, what it can look like in the industry and all of that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, okay, let me just preface this by saying that I think that we need to acknowledge that intersectionality exists, right? So, um, if you're going to be, uh, promoting inclusivity for the LGBTQ+ community, you should also be promoting inclusivity for all other marginali- marginalized communities. Um, however, you know, we wanna make sure that we're not speaking about anything that we're not... we don't feel confident, or the...

we're not the authority on, and so that's why we're gonna specifically be talking about LGBTQ+ inclusivity today. And there are plenty of other educators out there, uh, within the DEI space who, um, are kicking ass and who are excellent resources, such as Krystal L Hair and Makeup and, uh, Key and Neil. They are both mentors of mine, both very good friends of mine, and I highly recommend that you guys check them out. But for...

as far as LGBTQ+ inclusivity, or just w- what being inclusive actually means is intentionally taking action. Intentionally taking action to be sure that every single body feels like they belong and are safer in your space. That's what intentionally being inclusive means. Okay?

And I think that when we talk about, uh, inclusivity just in general, or LGBTQ+ inclusivity specifically, there's a lot of people I've seen who just kind of don't get it. So, I like to bring up this story. Me and my friend, Tess, uh, probably about a year and a half ago, we actually created a tiny little program for a moment, a workshop actually, that was called LGBTQ+ Inclusivity for Salons and the Beauty Industry.And when we were doing that, I went into one of those, like, massive Facebook groups, and I put in a post and I said, "What is your salon doing to create a more inclusive space for the LGBTQ+ community?"

And the freaking comments blew up with so many people saying, "Why do I have to do anything special? Like, why can't, uh, like, why can't I just accept people for who they are and just let them into the salon?" And people would say, "I don't really do anything. I just, like, eck, make sure that I'm, I let anybody do business with me."

Which is like, which is like, I mean, I'd hope so, you know what I mean? But the problem here is, and this is where we miss the mark with inclusivity just in general across the board, is that when we don't intentionally take action or when we aren't aware, right, uh, self-aware and aware of other people's emotions and experiences, is that we are being ignorant to people's real struggles, fears, and realities, right? And so, when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community, you know, w- there are, there is sexual orientation and then there is, uh, gender identity, right? And both of those things are separate things, right?

But for both of those things, there are, there are plenty of different things that people in, in the community have to face and have to be fearful of, and, um, experiences that they've had in the past, trauma, et cetera, et cetera, that have to be taken consideration for them when, when choosing who they do business with, who they trust, who is going to be touching them and changing their appearance. Like, that's a really big deal for people, right? So being inclusive is making sure that you're aware of possibly what those experiences may look like for other people, being really knowledgeable about, um, general theory of what sexual orientation and gender identity actually is, right? And just gender in general, not even gender identity, but just gender and, like, what it truly actually is, and understanding how it affects people and how they live in this world that we live in today, and then making changes or taking intentional action beyond just educating yourself, although that is the most important part, I would, I would say so, to create a space that people in the community can feel safe in.

So that's my tea. What do you think? Did I, did I leave anything out? Mm-mm.

No. No. I love that. And to, like, piggyback off of what you said about, like, creating a space, I mean, creating it is obviously, like, a huge part of it, but, like, making it known, I feel like- Mm-hmm.

is so important as well, 'cause like you can say that you're an inclusive space all you want, but, like, unless people know that you are, they don't know that you are. Right. So, yeah. Right.

And, like, that's the thing with the comments that I got on that Facebook group post, is, like, everybody's like, "I'm, of course, accepting of everybody," right? So then they think that they're excluded from the narrative, right? People think that if they aren't complicit in active marginalization, if they aren't actively homophobic, actively transphobic, actively racist, et cetera, et cetera, right, then they think that they don't have to do anything extra. They think that they, they're not the bad guy, quote, unquote, right?

And, you know, some of this comes from naivety and it comes from, you know, just the way that the fricking world works, unfortunately. And they, they freely feel like, you know, they're great people. And, and I have s- I struggle with this myself, you know, when it comes to my own journey of inclusivity. I really, truly, um, have struggled with this myself, and still do to this day, because that's kind of what society and the world that we live in teaches us to do, and it's like a machine that's designed to keep us ignorant, right?

And so, you're right. It's, it's one thing to say, like, "Yeah, sure, I'm inclusive," but it's, it's, it's another thing to actually take the action to show that you are. And here's why it's so important that you show that you are and that you actually do take these, this action. So, for me, I tell this story all the time, and I can only really speak about my own experiences, right?

So for me, being a gay, White, cis male, which I carry a whole lot of privilege as that, however, I am gay, right? And I do express myself in traditionally feminine ways, right? So I'll wear makeup. I'll, I'll color my hair.

I'll, like, wear girl's clothes. Like, I'll do my nails. And speaking of doing my nails, like, my entire life, even still to this day, I am so insecure walking into a nail salon to get my nails done, because I am so nervous about the nail techs or the other people sitting in the salon thinking, like, "Oh my god, like, why is he getting his nails done," right? Or I'm nervous that they're gonna, like, make fun of me when I'm leaving or, like, behind my back or something like that, or just, like, not understand and, like, not be cool about it.

And if, like, that nail salon, right, like, if they had put a rainbow flag on the front of their door, if they treated me like any other human being without any awkwardness or weirdness, right, when I walked into the building, then I would feel really safe and I would feel like I had a space that I could just walk into and not have to worry about those things, right? And that's a privilege. It's a privilege to be able to just know that you won't be seen as this other kind of person when you're walking into a space. It's a privilege to know that you will be absolutely safe no matter where you go and what you do and what you're participating in, and not everybody has those privileges, right?...

e- especially for me when I was younger, like, when I was, like, t- I mean, I came out in middle school. I came out in, like, seventh grade, and I was, like, starting to really, like, discover myself and, like, express myself and stuff. And I would feel so scared, so scared as, like, a, my, my gay little self, like, walking into different types of spaces. And even to this day, I still struggle with it every now and then, you know?

But again, like, if I s- if I was able to see some sort of symbol, sign, or proof, or actions that made me feel like I can be accepted into a space, that would have changed my life. And I probably would have been able to come out of my shell. Life would be a little bit easier for me. And I would probably be able to make more connections with more people if those spaces were more common and people took more action.

100%, yeah. Tea. So, I think with these conversations though, like, showing that you are, right? Showing that you are taking action to make sure that people know that you're inclusive, what needs to come first is educating yourself first.

Like, period. At the day that we're recording this, this is June 1st, so it's the first day of Pride, so this whole entire month is gonna be Pride. Pride kind of, like, leaks all throughout the summer, I feel like. Like, all the gays wanna, like, walk around and, like, just be sweaty and shit- ...

um, all summertime. We're in Pride right now, and what often happens with Pride is everybody's throwing up their rainbow flag, right? All the corporations, all the businesses, all the people are throwing up their rainbow flag. And they're either capitalizing upon LGBTQ+ inclusivity or the community and their strifes and struggles, or they are, um, they're just being performative, and they're just, like, just, like, wanting to feel like they're a good, good accepting person, and so they're just, like, fo- throwing the flag up, right?

When in reality, like, it really, it really takes, like, true education and knowledge to create a safer space for the LGBTQ+ community, right? And so I think the first step if anybody is looking to create more inclusive spaces, the first step is to get educated about what gender is, and what that spectrum looks like, and what sexual orienta- sexuality is, right? And what that means for people. And pronouns, how to properly address people, and what to do if you mess them up or how to ask for them.

Learn about your own sexual identity and your own gender identity, right? And really, truly understand what that actually means, and, you know, in today's definition as we understand it. Because if you're crea- if you're throwing up the rainbow flag and if you are promoting that you're an inclusive space, but then people walk into it and you don't have the education to truly provide that safe experience or that inclusive experience, then you can create real harm and damage, right? You can, you can really make somebody feel uncomfortable.

You can bring up past traumas. Um, you can do a lot, you can do a lot of damage. And so, i- it's almost... I almost say that it's almost more dangerous to throw a rainbow flag up at the front of your business, right, or on your website or something like that and not be educated versus just not showing u- not saying that you're inclusive at all if you don't have the education, right?

Because, like, I wanna know if I, if you're not gonna accept me when I walk into your space. I wanna know if I'm not gonna feel safe when I walk into your space. But if you're promoting that you're gonna be a safe space and I walk into it and then you fuck me over, that just, like, ruins my life. That's, like, that just, like, further deepens the trauma.

Like, that further deepens my distrust of people when they say or promote that they're cool when they're actually not, right? So I'm gonna pause there. I'm gonna give you some air, Caitlyn. Aw, I'm just, like, I'm here for it.

Like, everything that you said is so accurate and, like, it's so true. Like, if you aren't educated and you are essentially like these bigger corporations throwing up the Pride flag in June, it really can be so misleading in so many ways. And that, I feel like, does make it really tricky though, because it's like, well, like, what, what can I do that's right then? Or, like, is everything that I do wrong?

Like, it, I know that that can be, like, very, um, overwhelming as the person that is trying to present that they are a inclusive space. I feel like it's the effort that really counts, in my opinion. Yeah. And, like, educating yourself, like you said, is just so, so important.

Yeah, and it... And, you know, we are all human, right? Like, we are all human and we're, we e- we will never be done learning how to be more inclusive, right? And people aren't monoliths.

Like, people in the LGBTQ+ community, they don't all agree with each other. They don't all have the same thoughts. They don't all have the same, um, the same definitions for certain things, right? And so it can be really difficult when you're first starting out and learning to not feel defeated and not want to try and to give up really easily.

But, you know, we are all going through this journey in one way or another. We are all just really just at the scratching, scratching the surface of what it truly means to create an equiti- equitable world for each other, and a world for each other where we are all, um, educated and can create safer, as inclusive spaces as possible in this crazy-ass world that has been created, right? And the society that we live in and are complicit in. And so, you know, the resources are out there, and you'll never be done with your journey of any sorts of inclusivity.

You'll never be done with creating better, more diverse, equitable, inclusive spaces. And it can be discouraging, it can be confusing, it can be really scary, can be super scary, but I always find for myself, like, when I am feeling defeated or when I am, like, getting tired of the work or when I am scared, right...I make sure that I lean into that uncomfortability as much as I possibly can, because I know that I have a responsibility that is important to me to be a... be a better person for other people, where they really truly deserve that, right?

And, like, it's gonna... If it takes me being uncomfortable to make that happen, then by all means, I'm gonna lean into that, you know? So thank you for bringing that up. Thank you for helping people feel seen, you know?

I wanna make sure that, you know, anything that we're saying is not to shame anybody. It's just to really, truly bring awareness, right? Like, we need more awareness, and, and we need to... We need to know what, what it...

being inclusive actually truly really is. And again, you know, I'm not the authority on, on honestly even this topic, but there are plenty of resources out there. We, we don't have any excuses anymore. Like, we have Google, we have...

We have the internet, the World Wide Web, and we have these courageous, beautiful, amazing people out here who are willing to do the work and teach us all, right? And so I highly recommend that people seek those people out for sure if they're really trying to start in their inclusivity journey of whatever sort. So with all of that, right? With all of that, what often comes up when we talk about LGBTQ+ inclusivity in salons and for stylists is genderless pricing, right?

And I've had genderless pricing since I opened up my suite, actually. And I am a... I have actually... I have a fair bit of opinions about genderless pricing.

Yeah. Um, I have, I have a fair bit of opinions. I, I see it... I see it done in many different ways, ways that I find to not be as inclusive as, as they can possibly be, and not to mention not as strategic for you as a business, right?

'Cause that's the thing. It's... Me and C-... When I had Crystal L.

on the podcast, um, we were talking about just DEIB in general, we were talking about how if you're not gonna be inclusive just to, like, be a good person, at least do it to, like, be a smart business owner. Because truly, like, the more inclusive that you are, the more successful your business is gonna be. And genderless pricing is not left out of that conversation. It, it...

I mean, genderless pricing will make sure that you have predictable income and that you're getting charged... or that you're charging your... for your time properly, no matter if somebody has this length of hair or whatever gender that person is, right? But I believe in, in, in a lot of states now, and I'm assuming that it's just gonna keep on coming and keeping on going across America, is that gender, gendering in pricing is actually becoming outlawed, right?

Because why should a women... a woman pay more for their haircut than a man sh- would, right? Like, that's just, like, sexist, straight up. So not even is this just a...

necessarily an LGBTQ+ thing. It's just a gender... a gender issue in, in general, right? And so just starting right then and there, if we can connect with the people who are listening to this, I mean, if you identify as a woman, right?

And, like, I mean, I'm... I would be fucking pissed off. Like, I would be pissed off if a man... if a man who had the same exact hair as me was getting charged less than, than I would, right?

And so just starting right there, I mean, we should be... we should be removing gender from our prices. You're not getting paid fairly for your time because, again, if... you know, if a man has, like, hair down to his shoulders and he has maybe even more hair and it takes the...

an hour to cut that hair and you're getting ch-... and you're getting paid less than the ho-... for the hour that it takes to cut the woman's hair, or even less time, right, then it's just not a smart business situation, you know? Like, why...

Like, if it takes you the same amount of effort, same amount of energy, if not more, to cut this person's hair, then why are you charging them the same price than the other person, right Yeah. I completely agree. Like, I... I feel like this one, like, I get so heated about it.

Like, it... Not in a bad way, but just, like, I feel so strongly about it, because it makes so much sense- It does. to not have gendered pricing. So my own personal example, like early on in my career, it happened time and time again, where it's very common for men to have hair that is just as long as mine now, and all of a sudden, I'm doing what would be, quote-unquote, "a women's cut" on a men's cut, but I have half the time to do it.

And there's just so many freaking issues with it. Like, why wouldn't you want to streamline all of your systems, so that way, like, you aren't running into time issues and you aren't running into, like, payment issues? Yep. Like, "Well, you said it was gonna be a men's cut, so it should be this much, but it's actually gonna be a 'women's cut,' quote-unquote, because your hair is longer."

And, like, there's, there's... there's just so much, like, just crap that goes along with gendered pricing, and why wouldn't you want to get rid of that? Yeah. I completely agree.

I mean, and, and, you know, it's like you kinda wanna just shake people, but, you know, change, change is scary. Yeah. Change is scary. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's- Totally, totally.

I agree with you, and I... And whenever I'm teaching any of, like... You know, I, I teach a lot of things that are just different, right? And, and m- more moving-forward thinking, right?

And so I, I experience people being afraid of change all the time. And honestly, honestly, most of my job is helping people get through the fear of change. Like, that's truly what it is as an educator. And so, you know, it can be just really scary to even think about changing things in general, having to deal with the confrontation from your clients, if that would happen for you, right?

And, you know, that's why there's the right way th- to go about things and the wrong way to go about things. That's why there's ways to set yourself up for success as much as possible. But at the end of the day, you know, you also have to really take into consideration, like...How much does this mean to me?

And am I going to let these small, hand few- handful of people who are gonna be pissed off stop me from doing the right thing, or doing the thing that I believe is the right thing for my business and my community, because it's a part of my core values, right? Don't let that stop you. Like, like, you, you listening to this, like, you... I want you to lean into that uncomfortability, and I want you to, to step into the courage that I know that you have in your heart, and the, the passion that you have in your heart to really make a change in your own business and in your life and in your community, and just feel the fear and do it anyway, right?

Hell yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna be giving you guys, um, just some quick tips. I just actually pulled up some resources that me and Tess Filer created, uh, when we created our, um, LGBTQ+ training, where I taught all about genderless pricing. And I have some tips for how to implement gender, genderless pricing smoothly.

Now, actually deciding, like, how you're going to price is one thing, and I think that's just too much for us to get into today, um, but where I suggest that you, you know, you really start is by just charging for your time, period. This is controversial, but I think that charging by length, or any physicality in general, is by definition discriminatory. Like, it just is what it is, right? Where time is just a non-discriminant, like, indefinite resource.

Like, every single human being has time and knows the concept of time, and I think that it is something that you really just can't argue with, so when we, when we charge by length or we charge by, I mean, even density, right? Like, you can be stepping into a little bit of muddy waters, and you can be ca- ju- for discriminatory reasons and inclusivity reasons first and foremost, but also, your clients will notice. Your clients will be like, "Okay, well why is this pixie cut person getting charged less than me, where I took, like, less time than the pixie cut person," right? Like, your clients will see.

Your clients will notice, and at the end of the day, like, we want you to be char- you want- we want you to be charging for your time. Like, I, we want you to have a predictable income, just like every other industry, and so I am a firm believer that you should just be completely genderless. And so you can charge for your time, just straight up. Um, you can charge for your own experience, right?

So like, I mean, I break this all, I broke this all down in the, in the little training that I did, but like, just don't charge by physicality, okay? I, I'm a firm believer that it's just not the way to go. Okay, anyways, so how to implement this smoothly. So I suggest that you position this change as a correction to your service menu.

So this is not a change. This is not an increase. This is a correction, right? We are correcting these prices to be sure that we are being inclusive and fair across the board, right?

Like, that's what this actually is. And when people hear it as a correction, then they know that you're not just doing this, uh, for, like, a selfish reason. You're not just trying to charge more or being greedy. It's, no, you are trying to correct your service menu to be more inclusive, right?

I do recommend probably possibly implementing a change like this with your next price increase, just in general. I'm a big fan of kind of lumping things together if it's appropriate and if it makes sense. So like, I make a lot of changes when I do my price increases, because I'd rather, instead of making a, like, a change this month, a change next month, a change the next month, which can be a lot for people to keep up with, if you make multiple changes at the same time, then people can just get on board and you get it all out and taken care of in one, one go, right? So I recommend that if you do wanna change to genderless pricing that you maybe wait until you're ready for your next price increase.

But, but, but, if your next price increase isn't gonna be for a long time, then I suggest that you do it ASAP. And I would also suggest possibly, possibly considering, 'cause this just makes it super easy, considering session package pricing. I have session pricing in my business in which I have all-inclusive packages. I literally have three options to choose from.

So no matter what gender you are, no matter what length of hair or density you hair, of hair you have, it will be the same price, but it will be in correlation to the time that it takes me to get the transformation that we're looking for. So I have extra time options, yes, but I'm not saying for extra-long thick hair or something like that. Um, so it's something to consider. It's, uh, definitely an endeavor.

I recommend people check out Kimber Chapman for if you wanna look into session pricing, and we talk a little bit about simplifying your menu in pre-visit pathway too as well. So yeah. So that's the tea. Um, you're gonna be talking more about genderless pricing in an IG Live coming very, very soon, I believe.

I wanna say it's June 15th. Uh, double check Hunter's Instagram. We'll have it scheduled by the time that this comes out, so... Yeah, and whenever you're listening to this, we're gonna probably save it to the feed, so...

And this is gonna hold me accountable to doing it. So we'll go ahead and, yeah, I'll be going on Instagram, and I can answer questions and stuff about genderless pricing, because I've done it successfully in my own business. I did it before session pricing. I didn't go from, I didn't go from a la carte to session when I was doing genderless pricing.

I just went from... I stayed a la carte and I implemented genderless pricing, so I've been through all the loops, you know? And so I can really answer all the questions, no matter what type of pricing structure you have. So yeah, I'd be happy to answer questions, and even hit me up in the DMs if you have questions about it, because it's something that I'm passionate about.

And I think that it's, it's... We over-complicate it way more than it needs to be, like way more, so... So anyways, genderless pricing is important. I think it's something that would j- I mean, like you said, Caitlyn, like it's just kinda like you wanna shake people and just be like, "Why wouldn't you do this?"

Like, it just, it just makes sense, right? So yeah. So, Caitlyn, do you have anything to add before we close out this episode? No, I think we have, like, a jam-packed episode already, so I'll just kinda leave it at that.

I feel like we added a lot of value and a lot of opinion, but I mean... I love it. Dude, thank you so much for, um, co-hosting with me. I very much appreciate it.

You're amazing. Absolutely. And thank you, listener, for tuning in to the Modern Hair Stylist podcast. We're gonna leave all of the people that I mentioned in these show notes for resources, and, um, I appreciate you wanting to make a difference and tapping into your power of being a hairstylist to create a real impact in the community and the world collaboratively.

If you want to help me reach more hairstylists just like you who are looking to make a bigger impact, who are looking to grow their careers, um, without more hustle and to learn modern strategies to grow their business, but at the same time preventing burnout, then I'd highly, highly appreciate if you left a review wherever you're listening to this. And if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts, leaving a little testimonial about your experience listening to the Modern Hair Stylist podcast, um, and it'll help us reach more people, and we really appreciate that. Thank you so freaking much for tuning in, my friend. Peace out, girl scout.

Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2022 Hunter Donia LLC.