My Rant About Salon Policies & Last Minute Cancellations On The Hairstylist Rising Podcast

What's the tea, friend? My name's Hunter Donia, industry business educator for hairstylists, but my friends just call me Hunty. Whether it be growing your clientele, making more money, or automating and streamlining your systems, in the next 20 minutes or so, you'll be hearing realistic, actionable strategies to create a beautiful career for yourself behind the chair. So if you're ready to get into it, welcome to the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

Hello, and welcome back to the Hairstylist Rising podcast. Today's topic is one that you are gonna wanna take notes on, because I think that there has been more conversation than ever about last-minute cancellations, no-shows, all the things for hairstylists in 2023 and moving into 2024. So, I have my dear friend and host of the Modern Hairstylist podcast, Hunter Donia, in the building to discuss what you can do to actually reduce those last-minute cancellations and set yourself up for a business that's causing you a lot less stress, because that reactive state, I think, is something that it's difficult to operate proactively from. Would you agree?

Yeah, 100%. I mean, we've all been there. I'm still, I still practice behind the chair, and like, it is so frustrating, right, when a client maybe disrespects your boundaries in one way or another, you know, like what we perceive to be something that may just feel really rude or feel like really ignorant on our client's end. Um, I, it's really difficult to, for me at least, to not react emotionally or have a really difficult time thinking straight about how to handle that circumstance when it does happen, but also make sure that when those, when, when negative things such as that come up, and when behavior such as that comes up in our business on our client's end or whatever it may be, to take a step back and really self-reflect and use it as a learning opportunity to figure out how are we gonna adjust moving forward so we can be proactive and change this in the future.

I find that, like, with last-minute cancellations and no-shows right now, people are so focused and so quick to jump straight to fa- like, figuring out, "How do I charge the client for canceling on me? How do I get the money that I'm losing out on?" instead of thinking about the long game, right, playing the long game and the long term, and how do we reduce this in the future, and also, is it worth you even getting that 50% back or not. So we can dive, we can dive into this conversation in so many different ways, but I think that that's, like, a great place to start this.

And I love that you brought up, it's, this is a very emotional topic. It's a very emotionally charged topic, because I mean, this is our livelihood. And when we are thinking with our emotions instead of our logic, it's really difficult to make strategic business decisions. You're so right, and I think a part of it too, like, is that almost, I don't wanna say mob mentality, but that's what I mean when it comes to the frustration, because then it gets into, you know, when we see people venting online.

And I, I get where the frustration comes from. Like, I was a hairstylist for 15 years behind the chair, and so I've experienced all of it. Um, and I get where the frustration comes from, but I do think that it's, it kind of takes away from the purpose of cancellation fees and things like that in the first place, which is to prevent these things from happening. And I find the conversation online, especially recently, has almost gotten to be that cancellation fees and policies are more punitive than preventative.

And I think that is something I'm really excited to dive into with you, because it's so easy to say, you know, this is black and white, and this is how you have to do things all of the time. But in reality, like, there is that emotional side of it, and there is also that side of what is best, not just for today, but the long-term health of my business. So, let's get into, first of all, do you think that we're actually... This is a question I have that's, I'm curious about.

Do you think that we're actually experiencing more cancellations and no-shows now than we ever have, or do you think that it's that we are just having more conversations about it, it's more visible? Hmm. Super, super interesting question. You know, I think that, I think individual stylists are particularly, I feel like, the feedback that I've gotten is that they are seeing more last-minute cancellations and no-shows.

And I think maybe, maybe it's like a two-sided thing, like that they are individually experiencing those things, but then simultaneously, we are all hearing about it, right, because we are more open to having these conversations, and we're much more connected, and we're much more focused on business, and, uh, looking to get support from our peers. So I think it's a combination of both, actually, that's making it seem so prevalent. Um, I also think that, you know, post-pandemic, I think that the, the d- the change in the way that, uh, clients and consumers have behaved has changed as well, and so, you know, post-pandemic, right? W- everybody's working f- um, you know, when we're back behind the chair, you know?

Like, post-quarantine, I should say. We're back behind the chair, and a lot of people have a lot more money to spend, so it's a lot of extra cash to spend. They have a lot less constraints on their schedule because a lot of people are working from home. A lot of people had a lot more flexibility around that time, and as we've moved years past that, more and more and more- I mean, even my, my close friends who have office jobs, they're increasingly, uh, increasing the, the go back to work days, right?

And kids are more and more, like, going back to school in a much more aggressive way. Activities are back to, back, back in full force, like 100%. And so I think that, you know, we s- we had a moment where maybe our perspective, fresh out the pandemic, was like, "Oh, like, my, my average last-minute cancellations and no-shows normally feels like this," and that was a lot less because of our consumers having a lot more flexibility versus now things are, uh, very much back in full force, and I think it's a d- and now it's like, compared to what it was before, it's a little bit of a shock, and it feels like it's much more intense than it was, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

That makes a lot of sense because you're right. It's, I think we almost, and, uh, I've heard you talk about this before, we almost had a new baseline during that period where things were very much...... unusual. Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not gonna use the unprecedented word, um, but you know, it was very much a different time and we c- we got used to it, for lack of a better word.

So when a stylist comes to you and they are experiencing a higher than average amount of last minute cancellations, what is your first go-to? Like, before you look at anything else, where's the first place you examine? 'Cause I wanna really give some tangible advice on how you can reduce this happening in your business, not just why it's happening. Yeah.

I mean, I still am so shocked to this day, I'm so shocked to hear the amount of stylists and salons that don't even have a policy in place. Like, I g- I truly can't believe it. Like, especially now that we've d- that, that, like you said, like, the conversation is extremely active on social media and, like, we're all talking about it so much now, right? It, I s- I am still so shocked to hear that somebody doesn't, that people do not have a policy in place.

Um, and so that's, I mean, obviously first and foremost is like, okay, well, do you even have the policies in place, right? And then the second question is, are you, are you mo- tr- are you communicating those policies to your clients, right? 'Cause you can't be upset that somebody is, you know, acting out on bad behavior or unwanted behavior or breaking your boundaries if you haven't let your boundaries be known, right? You can't expect anybody to respect you if you don't, if you haven't shared with them how to respect you.

Um, I think it's an unreasonable expectation for, um, us to get really upset with our clients over something like this and immediately go to blaming them and everybody else around you when we haven't taken the responsibility of even having a policy in place in the first place. And then furthermore, uh, sharing that policy with the clients. And the way that I teach in my programs to do this, to share those policies with your, with your clients is not the normal way that people normally do. People are like, "Oh, yeah, like, when they book with me for the first time, they agree to my policies," or, "When they, uh, when they book online, they click a little checkbox that links over to my policies."

And it's like tho- that, that person is not... N- number one, that, that's, those policies are hidden, th- they have to be clicked over or scrolled through to be read, right? Um, they're very small. Uh, they're not obvious.

If you're only having your client do it very, like once, i- in the very beginning when they first came to see you, they're not gonna remember about it, you know, months later, years later. And so I teach to have your policies read and agreed to and signed every single visit, for a plethora of reasons. A plethora of reasons. Because your policies don't just include cancellation policies.

It also includes your redo policy, it also includes your, uh, retail return policy. It also incl- it should include, and this is something that we, uh, nobody does, nobody does, a liability waiver. And the, the importance of you doing this every single visit versus just once, right, becomes so much more amplified when we talk about a liability waiver because we're talking about y- that person signing a liability waiver for the instance, for that event, for that appointment that day. Versus if they sign a liability waiver, you know, a year earlier, right, and they're suing you for an appointment that is happening right...

that happened yesterday, right, or today, whatever it may be, then that liability waiver wasn't necessarily signed for, you know, every single service moving forward or it's not gonna hold up as strongly, right, as if you got a liability waiver for that day's service And so, and that, and that goes into all of the other policies as well, too. Like, if somebody wants to run a chargeback through their bank, right, and you, y- y- to have multiple documents that they've signed and agreed to your policy multiple times, including for that specific visit, right, is really, really powerful, you know. Like, to be able to be like, "Hey, bank, I saw that this person is disputing this charge. Guess what?

Here's my five PDFs of the last five appointments that this person has read and agreed to these policies." Like, that is powerful, right? And you don't wanna get a bunch of chargebacks on your bank account. Like, that's not a cute thing to s- the, for a bank and, um, for your POS to see.

It'll cause red flags and you can start to get, they can start to hold money back from you and stuff. So you really wanna make sure that you are protecting yourself in so many diff- in, in these ways and having your clients sign those policies ev- for every individual visit is truly how you do that. Now, I know that that might seem a little bit inconvenient or baffling, right, um, but the way that I teach it is really smooth and cool and it actually makes your clients really interested in wanting to actually do it. And I can dive more into, uh, more deeply into that, but I'm gonna stop talking and I'm gonna hand it back to you, Jodi No, this is so good.

You know, I actually wanted to share, I had an experience with this recently because, and, and this just goes to show the importance of communicating it. And what I wanna pull out and kind of underline of what you said here is the positioning of, like, when they're assigning the policies, like, within the client experience. Because... So I had a content shoot booked couple weeks ago and I ended up having to cancel last minute because I was sick and Mason was sick and I just, like, it was generally like I just couldn't go.

Um, and so I felt super bad but, you know, things happen. You have to, y- you just have to cancel sometimes. Life gets in the way. And I, so I let the, the content creator know and she was like, "Yeah, that's fine.

Like, I just, I'm gonna send you an invoice for 50% of it." And I was like, "Okay. I understand that because of my occupation." So I'm like, "Not a problem, whatever."

But what I was thinking of is I was like, "Um, just so I know for next time, like, what exactly is your policy?" She didn't really tell me, like, the amount or anything like that and I literally, upon booking this, like, service, doing all this stuff, at no point was this fee mentioned. And the fee was hundreds of dollars. And so, like I said, for me, I'm in the industry, like, I, I understand it, I'm like, "Whatever, no problem," like, I get it.

But for the average client who's not in, like, an industry like we are, a several hundred dollar fee or even a hundred dollar fee or even a $50 fee they didn't know about is going to drastically reduce, and I would say probably eliminate, the chance that they ever come back to you.Right? So that's something to think about. Dude, yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So this is where, at the beginning of the episode, where we talk about the long term versus the short term. What has happened is, is w- why, uh, what has happened right now is people are so rigid and so quick to jump to that, to jump, to jump to charging that fee. And I think- Mm-hmm.

that what has happened, right, is that there's this huge overcorrection. Like, we have- Yeah. We are so sick of, like, being stomped all over for years and years in the industry. Mm-hmm.

And there's so many people, I mean, even myself, like, saying, like, "Hey, stay strong in your boundaries. Like, you c- take control of your business." Of course. Mm-hmm.

And I have said, been saying this for years. I've been saying this since I very first started educating, okay? Yeah. I said that there is a, and I still teach this this way to this day, is there is a way for you to have the best of both worlds, which is where you have boundaries in place, you take care of yourself and your business, and you take full control and ownership of your business, and you demand respect, but you still offer an excellent client experience, uphold your reputation, and you don't jeopardize your professionalism.

So I think what has happened is, and Jay Ladner said this, uh, a co- uh, uh, in a conversation a couple months ago that I had with him. He was like, he said he thinks it comes out of fear. Like, it comes out of, like, "Okay, now it's time for me to, like, really stand strong and, like, stand up for myself." And so now out of fear, now we just go in the complete opposite direction, and we just go to the radical, you know, option of just being like, "Okay, I'm gonna charge every fricking person everything as soon as they cancel on me," you know?

So I, I think that living in the in between, and yes, making sure that you have systems and structures that are set up that support you in being able to charge things when you need to, right, or be able to carry out processes such as that when you need to is important, but also building into those systems plenty of flexibility for you to be able to still give that client an excellent experience. And thinking, uh, and, and thinking about the long term is massively important. So for example, right, this is a beautiful example. Let's say, right, that, that you d- especially if it's, like, your first time with this person, right?

Like, let's say that this is your first time you ever saw this person. That person decides to charge you 50%, right? Or you charge your client 50%, right? So let's say it was a $200 service.

You charge them 50% and it's 100 bucks. Great, you got the 100 bucks, right? Now that person's never coming back to see you ever again. You also risk getting a f- a negative review online.

And when people, this is the way that human psych- psychology just works, when people, people are much more likely to talk to so many more people about a negative experience than they are a positive experience, right? And so that person is now telling everybody in the area, probably even for years, like literally for years, about how you treated that, that sort- situation. Particularly, uh, i- i- in a much more important, big, massive way with this conversation, when it comes to illness or unavoidable circumstances, I just think that that is absolutely ridiculous. Like, I think that is dumb.

Like, I truly think that is stupid. What do you expect people to do, right? And so now, you, Q, you got your $100, right? You got your $100 that you would've lost out on if you didn't charge that policy.

Cool, whatever, fine. But guess what? You just lost out on potentially thousands of dollars in the long run. Tens of thousands of dollars.

Right? Yeah. Literally. Absolutely.

And, you know, I think that's the thing, right, is, like, when people, if you think about, like, I think we could all, you know, just humans in general could all benefit from putting ourselves in another person's shoes every once in a while. Because you have to think about how the story is gonna be relayed, I think sometimes. Like, especially, let's, uh, I mean, we could even get into in different, like, states, in different countries, like, it's, it's actually not even legal to take fees that were not signed off on. Like, that, like, if they disputed that, there's absolutely no way that you would win that.

You know what I mean? So I think that's another thing to think about. But, like, think about how you're relaying it. Say your client is like, "Oh," they never were told about a cancellation policy.

They have a sick baby at home, for example. And now they're telling all their friends like, "What did she expect me to, like, leave my baby at home?" Like - . you know what I mean?

You have to think about it from that angle as well. And I do just wanna add, because it's me and we knew that it was gonna come to this, but I really think that we need to think about, again, the positioning, because so often I think that stylists will update a highlight cover on Instagram and think that's enough in terms of policies. Or they'll put up a post once a month and they'll think that's enough in terms of policies. Yeah.

And so what I really love about the way you teach it, I'm excited to get more into this. I know you're gonna give us some, a little bit more detail on how this process works, but it's, it's about making sure that they see it. And, like, your marketing funnel is not the place to have your policies . It's just not, right?

No, and there's so many different factors with this conver- I mean, we could have a whole podcast episode about, you know, what should and should not go in your marketing, in our opinions, right? But, like, like, when I talk about communicating those policies, right, I, I already said, you know, I really believe it's every single visit. But, uh, s- I've seen some people be like, "Oh, well, like, we just have to educate our clients as to, like, why we have these policies in place." And it's like-No, you don't.

Like, you don't, you don't have to go on your Instagram story and say, "When you cancel on me, I lose all this money and I don't get paid, like, a salary." It's like, your client just does not care. And what kind of, what kind of r- of experience are you creating for new potential leads and clients when they're watching you on Instagram when you're saying stuff like that, right? Like, I get that's you being real.

I get that's you maybe feeling like you're standing up for yourself, you know, but, like, at the end of... And it may help you, you know? It may reduce your last-minute cancellations and no-shows. But it may also simultaneously reduce your new client requests.

And which one matters more to you, right? Like, or it might reduce your re- retention. Um, yo, if you go, if you go on your story, on your Instagram, on your feed, whatever it may be, and you complain about your last-minute cancellation, right, what's gonna happen is, is every person who has ever canceled on you last minute is going to see that and feel a lot of shame and now create a negative connotation and feeling around you. Yeah.

And n- and now you're creating an awful client experience in between the appointments. And they may... And that may have not even been about them, right? Maybe it was Jodi, maybe it was Jodi had a balayage appointment with me and she had to cancel on me because she had to bring her baby to the hospital two weeks ago, right?

So then I post this today because I had another client cancel on me today because she decided she wanted to go shopping instead, but how is Jodi not supposed to know that this post isn't about her, right? Yeah, and at the end of the day, like, it makes me think about the fact that we're in this industry, a lot of us, like, to make a beautiful living, to run businesses, all the things. But at the end of the day, what that comes down to and what that is a result of is creating an experience that makes people feel good about themselves. Yeah.

So when you are, you know, taking to social media and, you know, like, we've, we've had this conversation tons of times behind the scenes, but at the end of the day, it's like, if, if the end result of what you're doing is, you know, just to make yourself feel better, but you're making your clients, your livelihood, the people who, you know, aren't in it to screw you over, they're just, you know, something happened, those are the people that are gonna feel bad. And that's, like, not what we wanna achieve, especially when there's such a better way. Like, no one's saying- Yes. don't have...

I wanna just, like, reiterate that. No one's saying don't have cancellation policies, don't stand up for yourself, like- Yes. Absolutely, you should do all of those things, but there's a way to do it and to run your business with boundaries without sacrificing, like, what you're here to do. That's, make your clients feel good.

Yeah, 100%. And, you know, I think some of it too is, is you just not, you just gotta know that this is the nature of the business that you're signing up for, you know? I can't come up with a metaphor off the top of my head right now, but every industry has its pros and cons. Every industry has its inevitable, um, downsides, you know?

And of course, every industry is going to take, and every company, business, is going to take as, as many measures as they possibly can to mitigate tho- that unwanted, those unwanted results or circumstances, right? Of course, and that's what we're talking about, is, is how can we mitigate that? But we also have to understand that this is an inevitable na- this is the inevitable nature of our business that we're running, right? Like, we are working directly at an appointment-based business with human beings.

And relying on human beings to show up at a certain time and day is just, is just a... It's, it's, it's bound to happen that something goes wrong, right? I mean, you yourself, and this is another part of this conversation, you yourself are going to have days where you have to call out behind the chair, right? And, I mean, especially now, you know?

I, I don't want... I, I would not wanna go to a hairstylist who's sick, and I don't want somebody, a client coming to me when they're sick, right? So, like, for the people who are out, who are out there who are like, "Oh, no, I never cancel a day, and I go in even though I'm coughing and throwing up," I'm like, girl, you are creating a really uncomfortable experience for your clients. Like, call out, you know?

That's not the badge of honor it used to be . No! No, it's really not. I love that you just said that.

It's not, because it used to be, right? But th- the world is changing and, like, I think everybody across the board can agree that it is not the badge of honor and it's not offering your clients a great experience if you are coming in just no matter what. So there will be days where you have to cancel, so then how are you taking care of your clients when you're the one who has to cancel, right? I think that's another part of this, is, like, the way that you set up your policies, I think that it, like, when you are setting that up to really try and, try and, uh, feel out or, or test the waters of i- is this something that's fair, like, is this fair for me and the client, right?

Think about what if it was flipped in reverse, and what if you had to cancel on the client? Mm-hmm. What if you had to be the one who inconvenes- inconvenienced the client? Would that be fair to, for, would that be fair to you, right?

I, I also think with that, you know, I, I think it's something to consider. If you are gonna have policies in place, be willing and ready to have your own kind of policies in place with how you make up for whenever you do have to inconvenience the client. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the same, you know, the same cancellation fee, you know? So let's say your cancellation policy is 50%, right?

It doesn't mean that you have to give your client 50% off the next time. You can, like, that can be the way that you do it, I think that's very fair and even, right? But maybe you have a different way that you compensate the inconvenience, you know, um, in one way or another, right? So make sure that there's a flip side to it as well, and I think that can give you and your client even more perspective of, you know, making sure that you're offering an, a great client experience, but also, uh, protecting yourself and your boundaries at the same time.

I have a rapid fire question for you, Hunter. Yeah. When do you charge a cancellation policy, and when do you not? Dude, I literally, I have ma- I've charged a cancellation fee once in my entire career....

like, once. And the reason why, there's two reasons. Number one, because I've only had one circumstance where this girl completely no-showed me, right? She had signed my policies, like, three times 'cause she had seen me twice and she signed my, like, original intake form that has all my policies on it, right?

So she had signed and agreed to those policies. I reached out to her, asked her, like, "What the hell is going on?" She fully did not communicate with me and she wasn't giving me any answers, so I was like, "All right, then if you're not gonna even communicate with me," right? "Like, if you're just gonna ghost me, then, and, and be disrespectful to me, then h-heck, then why do I even, like, care?"

You know? 'Cause if you're ghosting me now, I never want you back in my chair anyway, so I have nothing to lose- That makes sense. by charging you that fee, right? Um, but again, you have to take into consideration, like, the legalities of your specific state and your county, et cetera, et cetera, because like you said, that, that can be taken into consideration in effect whether you're allowed to even do that or not if the appointment wasn't rendered, right?

Um, but the second reason, the second reason is, that I've only charged it once, is because I have done such a good job at reducing those last minute cancellations in the first place. Like, people don't cancel on me. Like, it just doesn't happen and that, there's so many different reasons why and we can get into those if you would like to, if we still have time. And the third reason is because I truly believe, like I said earlier, that shit happens, right?

Shit happens. These are human beings that we're dealing with. We cannot be expecting them to be perfect and amazing every single freaking day because I'm not perfect and amazing every freaking day, right? And I think, and it's just the nature of the business.

I think building into your policies also, like, a one-time, get one, one, one, uh, uh, getaway free card per year, right? Or, like, every, like, however many months, you know? Within a specific timeframe, you can cancel one time without being penalized, right? Um, I think having something like that in place is, would be really helpful as well too.

But for me personally, I've charged one person just because she was disrespectful to me even when it came to me communicating with her. Well, this is just the perfect lead-in. So how did you, how do you set it up? Because I can literally put myself inside the head of me back when I was like, you know, doing all the things manually as an independent stylist at the beginning and, like, just talking to so many of, like, my listeners, students, all the people in the industry.

Even my mom is still behind the chair, right? And what I'm sure a lot of people are thinking right now as they're listening is, "This all sounds great, but I do not have time to be checking up and sending stuff to my clients every single appointment and making sure-" Yeah. "... they're doing all these things.

Like, there's enough on my plate." Um, and I know that you are someone who is definitely very much about, like, streamlining your business as much as possible. Yeah. And, you know, working smarter not harder, all the things, um, which is why I respect your opinion so much.

And I think that this is where I'd love to go next. I'd love to dive into, like, the systems behind maintaining a sys- a, a, a policy like this- Yeah. and making sure that it is signed off on every single time. Yeah, so what I teach in my programs, um, is a, is a form that, um, your client fills out every single appointment every single time.

And this form is not just your policies, it's also a lot of fun things that help you personalize the experience so that way it's a more enjoyable experience for them, right? Um, and it's actually done before they walk into the door so that way it's not wasting any of your time and you don't have to, like, deal with, you know, rolling it out confrontationally in person and having to wait and, like, get it all set up, et cetera, et cetera. So it's all done digitally and the client does it themselves before they walk through the door. Um, and it also sets you up really successfully and well for the appointment too.

It really streamlines the way that the entire appointment goes, it elevates the client experience, sets you apart, and also, it reminds that client of your policy every single time. It reminds them there are consequences to these actions, it is something that is unwanted, that it will, that I, that creates a negative experience for me as the hairstylist, right? And it makes that client very aware because it's so repeatedly, um, shared to them, right? Um, I have other ways, uh, other systems that I suggest and put in place to reduce those last minute cancellations.

But as far as, like, getting your client to sign that policy every single time, that's how we do it, and I teach how to do it in a streamlined way and, like, extensively within my programs. I love that. Okay. Tell me the other ways.

What are some of the other things that you do in order to reduce and, or in your case actually eliminate last minute cancellations? Yeah, so I think that there's a lot of, uh, conversation and common, uh, approach from a lot of people right now is, is, you know, one of the three, which is getting a credit card on file, getting a deposit ahead of time, or, like, sending an invoice f- Well, I know, I guess we're gonna talk about prevention. Let's talk about prevention, right? We're not gonna be talking about how we actually handle it after.

We're gonna talk about prevention. So either getting a credit card on file or deposit. Let's talk about that as far as, like, your POS system goes and, like, your, and, and, and leaning into one of those strategies. So I'm a big fan of the credit card on file, requiring a credit card on file to book an appointment, which is another reason why I love teaching online booking only, like, having your clients to book online majoratively, even if they're pre-booking, even if they're pre-booking with you in the chair.

Literally booking on your online booking site, because it will force them to go through the process of having a credit card on file, right? You don't have to have the awkward conversation with them, like, if you're booking them yourself, um, and it'll just ensure that, you know, they're really serious about that appointment, you know? Like, if you get that person to put some skin in the game, right, then it's going to be much more likely that they're not just, you know, willy-nilly booking whatever and they're like, "Oh, I'll cancel it later." Now they have a credit card on file and normally, yeah, it does probably show, like, hey, like, there is a fee if you cancel or something like that.

And that's making sure that your client really actually is serious about that appointment, right? Um, a lot of people...... are consider- are, are considering and leaning into, uh, nonrefundable deposits because of, um, you know, just how out of control they've felt this is getting for them. I personally am not a big fan of deposits.

I think deposits are necessary when we get into more high-ticket, high-cost of goods, services, especially when the cost of goods- Like extensions. is... Exactly. When, when, when the, when the, when the cost of goods is spent prior to the service as well.

Like, so yeah, 100% extensions. Like, anything that's super high ticket, um, where there's a shit ton of money on the line, I think that that is super important. I mean, I think even, you know, you wanna consider as well too, right, like, maybe this is a long, a long service. Maybe you, maybe you're an extension specialist and maybe you, you have changed your schedule to be, like, three days a week because you can make X amount of money in X amount of hours instead of five days a week where you can take a bunch more appointments, right?

Like, I think in that circumstance, like, there's a lot more on the line and there's a... and you already purchased product that needs to be paid for. Um, and, and if it's a really long service, even, like, let's say it's even a color correction. Like, if that's taking up a lot of time and that was gonna cost a lot of money, I think that a nonrefundable deposit for something like that is absolutely fair and effective.

Um, and I think that the client i- I think that the type of client who would be signing up for a service such as that in the first place is also a client who is very much willing to put down a deposit for it. You know what I'm saying? On the flip s- Go ahead. I just wanna clarify a point here.

So if you are someone... Because I, I'm just interested on your take on this. So say you are someone, like an extensions pro- I'm gonna use that example. Um, you're blocking out, you're buying new hair, you're blocking it out, you're taking the nonrefundable deposit.

What do you, wh- what would you recommend? Say you have a student who is... has this situation happen. Do you then, like know the deposit's nonrefundable?

Do you then like move the appointment? Is there a fee? Like, what happens in the circumstance where you take a deposit and they move the appointment anyway? Um, super interesting.

It depends on the circumstance, right? So like going back to like, I ca- I say, I say doing good business is being a good human, um, and vice versa. Uh, and so like going back to like, this is ridiculous. Like if somebody was sick and this was an extraneous circumstance that somebody was truly out of control of, then I wouldn't, I, I would not take the deposit and I would actually just re- reschedule them.

But, you know, otherwise, especially when there's that much money on the line, you know, and that person knows that there's a lot of money on the line, that person very much agreed to putting that money down, they, they really knew what they were signing up for, right? If it's... if they're canceling for any other reason, then I say take the money and if you wanna reschedule with me, then, you know, then you can... you have to pay another, uh, uh, nonrefundable deposit.

But and then ag- and there, there's another conversation with that and where you have to consider your return on your investment of that decision, right? Is this a really loyal client? Is this a client who like, refers you out nonstop, right? Um, is this an ideal client who you absolutely love, right?

Is this a client who frequently visits you, who spends you a lo- spends a lot of money with you? How often is th- does this circumstance come up, right? And those are the type of factors that you really want to consider when it's like, do I charge the fee or not? You know?

Um, even when it comes to high-ticket services. Yeah, and making sure you're not projecting, right? That's another thing is like, you know, if this is... Like you said, I think like you can have policies, but you can also...

I like how you put that, like be a good human. This is someone who's been like loyal to you for a really long time. 'Cause I think sometimes what can happen is loyal clients, and I've literally seen this with people I've worked with, can almost get caught in the crossfire. Mm-hmm.

Like, they are sick and they have like a legitimate reason, but the person, like the day before just ghosted you, so you're all pissed off and you're reacting, right? Yeah. So I think it's very important to, like, keep that, um... And, and also, like when you have a higher ticket business too, like when you're getting into that, like you do definitely want to protect your business, but also protecting your business, like you said, sometimes is more about the long term than the short term.

So- Absolutely. I love that. Absolutely. I think it's about using your...

Like in those circumstances, it really is about using your critical thinking skills and like taking a s-... It's so hard. Uh, when I... I have had m-...

I mean, it happens all the time. I've had multiple circumstances in the past year when my emotions are really high around a decision that I have to make. Like or there's a circumstance in the business where it's like, do I even make a decision? Do I act on this at all, right?

Like do I even do anything, right? And I make it a big point, a huge point to talk to somebody else, right, within my community, trusted peers where I feel safe, talk to a mentor, um, and also give myself 24 to 48 hours. You know, like if this is something where it's like, you know, the emotions are really high, you're not really sure about what you should do, definitely consult your peers and, and trusted, uh, trusted mentors and things like that, but also give yourself some time to like really step back and reflect. I think that's so important.

100%. I've... I, I relate to that so much and I've actually started, like I'll write out in the notes app in my phone how I want to respond- Mm. and then I'll leave it.

Yes. And then I'll come back to it and sometimes just getting it out of your system in that way allows you to think more critically about it and allows you to actually come to a decision that makes sense. So I love that. Yeah.

Um, any other like must-have tips for preventing no-shows, last-minute cancellations? Like, and do you handle... This is another question I have is do you handle the two differently? Because last minute cancellations and no-shows, while they ultimately do have the same effect, I feel like sometimes, you know, they can have different reasons, different topics.

Yeah. Like do you have different policies for each of them or is it basically the same, like within 24 hours is considered a no-show kind of thing? Good question. Can you, can you put a pin in it and bring me back to it in just a second?

Do you mind? Yes. Of course. I really want to make sure because I know that there's somebody listening to this saying like, "Hunter, why don't you like deposits?"

Yeah. For things that aren't, for things that aren't high-ticket.So, the reason I don't love deposits for things that aren't high-ticket, is 'cause I truly believe it's too high of a barrier of entry for somebody, for a client who isn't necessarily willing to pay a high-ticket price. Uh, or, or is it, or isn't naturally or plan to pay a high-ticket price.

I think it's too high of a barrier of entry. I think it's just like not really necessary, and I think that the credit card on file and making sure that that client is signing those policies every single time, I think is plenty. And then, I do have other, uh, I do have other tips that I would love to share. I just want to respond to that too, because I think there's also the trust factor that I just wanna bring in because like, when you, like the result of your marketing, right, is like wanting to bring people in.

The trust- Yeah. is like almost there, but like after, like the, what someone's willing to do to make an appointment with you a second time often is going to exceed what they're willing to to make an appointment the first time. So I- Yeah. would 100% agree with that.

Like don't set up more hoops to jump through for new clients than you absolutely need to unless, like if you were someone who was like really focusing on the growth of their business and bringing in new clients, like- Yeah. specifically. Yep, yep. I would agree with that.

I just think it's like, especially if you do have like a process that where your new client is gonna be doing a little bit more work than not, right, like you, you haven't gained a lot of that trust yet. So, I, I mean, I just, I just don't think it's necessary. I really don't. But when it comes to higher ticket price, uh, higher ticket services, I think that that makes a lot of sense.

I think it makes a lot of sense to the client as well, too. I, you know, I think the client can agree and understand those things. Difference between no-shows and last-minute cancellations. Well, no-shows, I, I mean ...

Honestly, no. Honestly, I don't think that I, I, I treat them diff- I, I don't think I treat them differently. I, I don't es- I wouldn't say that you have a different policy for either one of them, you know. Um, I think that you're, the, the point of you having the cancellation policy in the first place, you know, normally you have these parameters, right?

Like you have the window of time in which somebody can cancel on you without getting, or with or without getting charged the fee, right? And then you have the parameter of how much the fee actually is, right? So the point of that, that window is how quickly would you be able to fill in that gap, right? The point of you even having the notice at all is, is so you have enough time to fill the gap, right?

So either way, you're screwed, you know. Because if somebody, 'cause if somebody reaches out to you within 24 hours, let's say y- you can't fill a gap within 24 hours. Somebody's gonna no-show you, it's the same result, right? Because no- nobody's filling in that gap.

So, uh, the, wh- when it comes to anything in your business, you wanna like peel back the layers of what is the actual purpose of me doing these things. Like what is the fundamental reason why I'm doing this. And then that's, wh- when it comes to that particular circumstance, it's the same effect. They do the same thing, so then having that, that policy in place covers both of those aspects and it doesn't really make a difference.

What does make a difference, such as my example, is if you, they're no-showing you and they're like ghosting you and not responding to you, like not communicating with you. I think the communication part of this is so important. I think the post-communication, right? Like if you reach out to somebody and you ask them if they were okay, um, uh, and you know, uh, they, they res- they didn't respond to you, I just think that's effed up and that's like grounds for like, okay, like I might be charging you, you know?

Depending. But if somebody responds to you and they're communicative with you, if they're apologetic, if they give you a valid reason, you know. I mean, I've had people tell me like, "Hey, like I just fucked up my calendar." And this is, and it was somebody who like I had, had would never no-show me or can- cancel on me last minute if they knew better, you know.

Then I'm not gonna charge them, 'cause it's not worth it to me. I don't need, I don't need the $150, you know? What I do need is the $305 over multiple appointments, you know? The $300 I should say.

I just did my math wrong. Yes. I'm thinking about my own, my own services. But you know what I'm saying?

That's what I do need. I need that person to come back to see me multiple times over a long period of time. And so if charging that person a $150 is gonna make me happy in the day, right, it may not make me happy in the long run, you know. Yeah.

100%. And honestly, like I've made mistakes with my calendar. Like when I- Me too. you know, before I switched to exclusively online booking behind the chair, I booked two clients in at the same time.

Could you imagine- Yep. if they were like, "Okay, well, I want you to pay me now for my service 'cause I showed up and you're not doing it." Exactly. Like, it's- Exactly.

it's something to consider. I love that. So before we wrap up today, Hunter, I just wanna, I just wanna give you an opportunity to any other, any other thoughts you have on this topic in terms of the, the conversation that's going on in the industry or, you know, what you can see stylists doing that they shouldn't be doing, or what they should do more of. Like, let us have it.

Yeah. My last tip is gonna be, if you're looking, if you're like, if you have like an appointment for something, like think about yourself listening to this, my friends. Like if you have an appointment for something, if you have something coming up, like for example, I just bought a new pair of skis, my very first pair of skis. I'm, and I'm, freaking love skiing.

Like I'm obsessed with it. It's like truly my escape. And I just bought my first pair of skis. I am beyond excited for it.

Like I am hype, okay? Uh, I, and I'm gonna go pick them up. I have an appointment to go pick them up on Friday, like this upcoming Friday. And I am not booking shit around that, okay?

Even though, you know, even though it's something that like I could totally wait until Saturday to get them, you know. Like I could totally wait 'til Saturday. Like nothing bad would happen, like I, and, and it's very much like not like an essential thing for me to get them on Friday, you know. I'm not canceling it.

I'm not putting anything over it because I want them as soon as possible, and I will not schedule anything over it, right? So, how that, uh, is relevant to this conversation is if you create an excellent, okay, excellent client experience, not just in the chair but also in the pre-visit and the post-visit experience, and in the chair, is, is that, is that experience so freaking-Mind-blowingly crazy that your client is like, "Oh, hell no. I would never imagine scheduling anything over this appointment or canceling this appointment last minute. I would have to be dying," right?

If you create that type of client experience, you will absolutely reduce your last-minute cancellations and no-shows. That is truly, like, the big thing that I truly believe also reduced a lot of my personal last-minute cancellations and no-shows behind the chair. I have people driving two hours to come see me now because I've moved cities, and they will cancel everything. They, they will cancel their entire day off work, you know?

They will drive two hours to come see me in Philly, and they will park and pay for the parking and go back because I have done that, right? And I ... And it's a privilege to be able to teach other hairstylists within my programs and with my podcast, Modern Hairstylist podcast, the, the, how to do the same, right? What I'm seeing now, and I've ranted about it already plenty through this, through this episode, is we, we have done...

I've been... And I've been warning, I have been talking about this for years. We are going way too far in the other direction. We are tarnishing our reputation as an industry.

We are doing really irresponsible price increases, like price increases that are like out of this... It's like people are like, like, "Oh, I wanna make $100,000, so I'm gonna do the math for what my hourly rate's gonna be and I'm just gonna raise my prices to $100 an hour." It's like, do you even have the demand for that, right? Um, "Oh, I'm gonna start standing up for myself and my business, so I'm gonna just charge the cancellation fee whenever somebody cancels on me without any nuance or, or critical thought or human being, uh, emotions behind that," right?

Or, or thinking about the long term, right? When it comes to boundaries, okay, you have to remember that you are a business owner, right? And that your business is not there to entertain you. Your business is not there to be this perfect thing that is always comfortable and always amazing.

Your business is there to give you a livelihood, to allow you to have a beautiful personal life, right? And sometimes the unfortunate little circumstances and bumps along the road, the last-minute cancellations, right, whatever it may be, the client texting you at 3:00 AM, sometimes that is just you, uh, uh... That's just what you signed up for with your business. That is just the nature that you signed, of the business that you signed up to do, right, and to have.

So, you can mitigate those th- that unwanted behavior. You can put those boundaries in place as much as you possibly can, but that is all inevitable. And the way that you, you respond to those actions can truly be a make or break for the way that your business is perceived and the reputation that you have and whether it succeeds in the long term or not. So, s- I just would say, take a step back, make sure that you are proactive versus reactive, and let's stop just jumping straight to the extreme and like really, like, remember to balance out our professionalism and the way that we approach these things at the same time.

Ugh. Amen. Like- I know. I literally ...

That sums up my whole thought. I mean, anyone who listens to this podcast knows, like, how much I've talked about, you know, the going too far, especially, like, in my lens, through the marketing angle. Yeah. And I think you're so right when it comes to every single aspect of your business, and like, remember why you got there.

And sometimes, too, I think that it's so easy to look at, like... And I love social media, but we do see, like, the highlight reel, right? And we're like- Yes. "Oh, like, this person's doing this."

I guarantee you, every single person that is, you know, talking about... Giving advice on the internet has hard days in their business, too. Yeah. Hunter, you've been honest, you do.

I know I do. Yep. Like, so even if you love your business, you've created the best thing on Earth, there's always going to be things that come up, and there's always going to be those emotions. So learning how to handle that and make critical decisions...

I love how you said critical thinking, 'cause I think that's, like, word of the year for 2024. Period. I like- everyone - Yes. doing critical thinking.

Um, and yeah, that's just brilliant advice. I highly recommend anyone listening to this, go check out Hunter's podcast, because I love how actionable and how, like, real your advice is. I think- ... it's just wonderful, so definitely check it out.

Thank you for being here, my friend. Um, and so where... My, my listeners can find you on any major podcast app and over on Instagram. What's your handle?

Let us know. My handle is @hairbyhunty, H-U-N-T-Y. Perfect. All right, well- Yeah.

thank you for being here, my friend. Yeah, thanks so much, Jodi. It's so great to, uh, be able to... I love having conversation with you because you, you ali- you always bring up the good points that, like, I can take and run with and, like, give to the people, and so everybody listening to this, thank you so much for tuning in and for your time today.

I really appreciate it, and, uh, again, like Jodi said, if you wanna connect with me, you can connect with me over at the podcast by listening in, and you can send me a DM on Instagram, tell me that you, uh, uh, found me by listening to Jodi's podcast. Let me know if you have any struggles or your thoughts about what I had to share today. I would love to hear what you have to say about what I had to say. Um, and so much love to you, Jodi.

Thank you so much for, uh, giving this spa- giving me this space on your platform. I really, really appreciate you and what you do for the industry. Thank you, thank you. Anytime, my friend.

It won't be the last time .

End of transcript. © 2024 Hunter Donia LLC.