Size Inclusivity in the Salon w/ Heather Judd

Let me guess, you are a hustling, bustling hairstylist behind a chair, working so hard to build a beautiful career for yourself, one that gives you time, freedom, and energy to spend with yourself, your family, and your friends. But you feel like you're always working in your business, even when you're not behind the chair. My name's Hunter Donia, and I help you automate your systems and implement really beautiful strategies so you can grow your business without the overwhelm. And this is the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

Hello, friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist podcast. This episode is going to be a super special one, because we're gonna be talking about a very important and almost never talked about topic today. And I have a really good friend to be coming on to speak about it with you today, and I'm really, really excited to have her here.

So, um, we have Heather Judd on the podcast today. Hello, Heather. How are you? I am doing fabulous.

How are you, Hunty? I'm doing so good, and I'm just so excited that you agreed to come on the podcast with me. It was gonna happen at one point or another. You and I, uh, we met on Clubhouse, right?

Through, like, our, like, different, like, Thrive Society circles kind of when Clubhouse became, like, a big, explosive thing. And I immediately was like, "Oh my God, who is this, like, badass woman coming on here just spilling the tea?" I feel like you just have such a powerful leader presence to you in every way that you show up, in, in all the spaces that you show up in. And so I have always been immediately impressed by you, and I'm so glad that we've been able to form a connection over, uh, since then.

And we used to do a lot of Clubhouses together in one way or another about a bunch of different topics. And I remember we had, like, uh, our group of friends. We all had, like, this, like, group, uh, Clubhouse room that we would do every Monday. And each of us, like, we would rotate through, and we would get to choose, like, what topic that we wanted to bring to the table for the room on each Monday.

And it was your turn to bring the topic to the table. And the, the week before, the week before, you were like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I'm bringing the heat next week." "Like, we're gonna talk about inclusivity.

But we're not gonna talk about the inclusivity that we normally talk about, that is normally talked about." And I was like, "Oh my God. What is she gonna bring to the table?" And what you did bring to the table was very eye-opening to me and I know everybody else who was blessed to be in that room that day.

And I think it's a message that needs to be amplified and, um, that the industry and just any service provider and every human being who is living right now needs to be more aware of. And so I'm super excited to chat with you about that. But before we do, I have your bio right here, and I could read it myself if I wanted to. But I, I'm going to, I'm going to allow you to tell us exactly who you are, Heather.

Who, who are you? What's the tea? Where you livin'? What you doin'?

Like, like, please introduce yourself, if you don't mind. Okay, I will. So I'm Heather Judd, Mama Heather, as many of you know me. I have been a hairdresser for nearly 30 years.

I started in the industry in 1994. I opened my booth rent salon in 1998, and at that time, I was definitely the youngest stylist, and I am no longer the youngest stylist in the group. I have a passion for booth rent. I think that it's a fantastic way to, um, give stylists the choice of how they want to spend their money.

That's my biggest... It gives them financial freedom and how they want to apply said finances in a way that will make their lives more beautiful. And the topic that we're going to talk about, yes, is inclusivity. And it's something that is important to me as I have traveled through my journey as a hair s-, as a, as a hairstylist and as an owner of the last 30 years.

And as an educator, because I've also been a branded educator, and I also love coaching stylists and salon owners in their journey and leadership and booth rent and also a little bit of photography. So all the things that will help you be more successful in your salon. But the inclusive topic is people of size. When I started this industry, I was not as large and fluffy as I am today.

But, um, four kids later and lots of stress and mismanaged stress of being a salon owner, I put my own, my own wellbeing and my own health on the back burner for way too long. And I found myself, um, at one point over 400 pounds. I am almost six feet tall, and so that does, you know, put a little bit of scale to me. But at the exact same time, it's a reality that a lot of women, I feel like, share.

And, and men. But, you know, we, we deal with primarily women in this industry, so a lot of people, a lot of humans. And, um, it puts us into a very vulnerable and uncomfortable position when we walk into a salon and immediately scan the, the lobby, scan the, you know, the entire environment and realize that none of the chairs will fit us. Or even before you walk in, there are, I guarantee you there are clients who are searching and scouring over your social media, trying to see if your chairs, if your styling chairs, if your shampoo bowls are going to accommodate their size and if they are going to make them feel more self-conscious or if they're going to feel comfortable in your salon.

Wow. Well, thank you so much for introducing that topic so beautifully, and thank you so much for being vulnerable and, like, bringing your own story into, you know, this message that we're trying to get out there, because I feel like it makes people feel really validated. Mm-hmm. And I think it's so important, and I, and I really thank you for doing that.

I really, really do.And I'm really looking forward to maybe making a lot of people aware of this situation, if they have never been aware of it before. And so I would... Uh, we...

Me and Heather were talking before we started recording, and I was saying, like, as somebody who, uh, has, like, skinny privilege, like, quote-unquote. Right? I, I, I've walked through the world, like, never even thinking twice about, "Are they going to have a chair that accommodates me?" Mm-hmm.

And, and, and so therefore, you know, I don't ha-... I never had the awareness to make sure that when I am curating a space, that I, that I am thinking about those things for the people who it would matter for. And, you know, that's just... That, that's just it when it comes to inclusivity of any kind, is it really comes down to just being very intentionally aware.

And so I'm... I thank you so much for opening up this conversation with me today, and, and when you did that one day in Clubhouse. And I'm really excited to enlighten some people. I think it's gonna be cool.

Thank you for bringing the topic up again. Yes, absolutely. So there's, like, a... plenty of different directions that we could go here, right?

And so what I'm assuming that people are thinking right now is like, "Oh, my God. I'm, like, thinking about every single part of my salon right now." "I'm thinking about every chair that I have. I'm thinking about everything that we do in the salon."

So do you think, like, there are some specific, I guess, like, parameters or measurements or things like that, that people can be doing, like, with their furniture to make it so they know that it'll be an inclusive situation? Like, are there certain parameters that you can possibly suggest? Absolutely. So, um, when I was opening up my new space in 2020, I already had the chairs that I...

w-... the styling chairs that I wanted because, you know, a few years previous to that, it was like 2017, I was buying all new chairs for the salon. And it was really important to me to find chairs that were wide enough so that clients could, you know, feel comfortable in them. When I sit...

I just use myself in ex-... as an example because, you know, I, I can use myself as the example, and, uh, I'm not gonna be offended by it. So me, I will use myself as the example. I already shared that at one point I was over 400 pounds.

I have lost 100 pounds. I still have 100 pounds to go, but in that... You know, keep in mind, I'm almost 6 feet tall, so that alone is going to put me into a, you know, a, a category above a lot of women, because my s-... my s-...

uh, you know, my size, my stature, everything about me is going to be bigger than somebody who's 5'6". Even if I was at my optimal weight, I'm going to be a larger woman regardless of, of how much weight I do or don't have. But using myself as the example, when I sit uninhibited and un-... you know, like, just in a, in a chair without any sides, like I am right now, when I sit, my measurement side-by-side is 26 inches wide.

So there are, there are no styling chairs that I found that were 26 inches wide . None whatsoever. But there are chairs that are, like, 18 inches, 19 inches, 20 inches, 21 inches, and so I went with the ones that, of course, are 21 inches, because they just feel more comfortable. They, they're not too restrictive.

Another thing that you can take into consideration is making sure that you purchase a chair that maybe has open sides, you know, that the armrests are open. Because then, I mean, I'm just speaking completely o- open here. Then somebody, if they do have a wide hip measurement like I do, their hips can go outside of those armrests. But then the other thing that you have to take into consideration, and I know this seems like a lot, is that then you also have to k-...

take into consideration the measurement from seat to the top of the armrest. Because that... Typically, an average armrest height is about eight inches. And when I'm sitting and w-...

you know, and unrestricted, when I'm sitting from, you know... My seat depth for me is, uh, 17 inches. So if you have an average, um, armrest height of eight inches, that's 17 inches. That means that I'm going to be sitting, you know, my legs, my everything, m-...

you know, m-... my, my beautiful bum is going to be sitting up above that armrest than... What would that be? Uh, nine inches?

I mean, I'm two... I, I'm, I'm a full, full armrest above it, plus an inch. And so it just makes, it makes the client a little bit more self-conscious, because then they know that, "Okay, I'm not fitting in this seat." And then the other thing that we have to talk about, you know, we really do need to talk about, is that you, you really do need to spend a little bit more money on the hydraulic base that you have, because hydraulic bases, they come in different...

They come in different w-... weight limitations, and standard is, like, 199 pounds. And I don't know very many 6-foot-tall men who weigh 199 pounds. Most of 'em are more than that.

You're right. It's so true. And so thank you so much for giving those specifics. I really appreciate it.

And so you said, right, like, you can't find... Like, it's really difficult to find, like, furniture out there with these perfect parameters. Am I correct? Like is it- Yeah.

is it almost- Very difficult. impossible? Near to impossible. And so do you just suggest that people just try their best to find what would be most comfortable?

Oh, absolutely. You know, and the one... the great thing about most of the companies out there that are selling, you know, uh, furniture to us as, you know, as hairdressers, they have. You just have to look for it, and you have to...

Uh, the thing that you have to be really careful of is you have to look for the inside measurement, not the outside measurement. Mm. Because the outside measurement can actually add 4 inches, because sometimes our armrests on our seats, especially- Really thick. They're really thick....

especially on the really, like, they're, they're a little, they're a little bit trendy right now- Yup, I know exactly what you're talking about. but the, the pops are big, and they're thick, and they're molded, and they're beautiful, and I want them so badly. But a lot of them are 17 inches across. Yeah.

And that's not very big. No. When you're really talking, when you're talking how wide somebody's hips are, that's not, that's not a lot. Right.

So you have to take into consideration what the seat width is on the inside measurement, not just the full chair measurement. And so it takes some digging. It takes some time. It takes a lot of, you know, proactive effort on our part- Mm-hmm.

to be able to find the seat that is going to be accommodating and is going to be inclusive to everyone- Yeah. not just really pretty in our salon. I love that. So I...

So I wanna ask this question. Okay. How do you feel... And I feel like I know the answer- ...

but, but how do you feel about when people have... They have inclusive options, right? They have inclusive options, versus that being, like, the standard, right? So, like, let's say, like, somebody already had, right?

Let's say somebody had- ... like, a non-inclusive chair already, right? Or that's, that's all that they have. That's all that they have.

And so then they were like, "Oh, shit. I need to have, like, a more inclusive option in the salon," and so they ha- they add, like, three chairs in that would be, that would be conducive for the situation. How do you feel about that? I think it's terrible.

Me too. Me too. I'm sorry. Just, I, I think it's terrible.

I think that's, that's like saying, um, you know, "Let's put these people over here." Right. You know? And, and, and I don't know how you go about it gently.

I don't know how you go about it kindly. I don't know... I mean, I understand that there's an investment to this. But when we, when we choose to be salon owners and when we choose to be, you know, suite owners, we choose to be above and beyond what is just basic.

Yeah. We should be, anyway. We, we choose to be somebody who is offering our services to a very specific, you kn- or t- you know, to, to an inclusive type of, you know, environment. Yeah.

And, I mean, if your goal is to only have thin, beautiful people, then you've a- you've accomplished it- Right. because you will only allow those people to feel welcome in your salon. Right. But if you, if you have a certain chair for "certain people," I say in air quotes, well, then you will make them feel even more self-conscious about the fact that they had to have a special chair.

I personally would feel, first of all, angry. Yup. And then second of all, humiliated. And I, I personally probably would just leave.

I would say, "You know what? I will just... Uh, you know, I... It's n- It's okay.

I'll just take care of it myself, and, um, rather than put you out, I will, I will, I'll find somebody who can take care of me." Right. Thank you so much for answering that. I appreciate it.

Yeah. A- and you brought it up. Like, you're creating this space, right? And I, I...

People... I don't think people really take a step back and, like, really, truly think about the impact that we make- Mm-hmm. as b- as beauty professionals. Like, we do not truly understand how powerful it is what we do- Mm-hmm.

every single day, because it's our jobs, because it's our day in, day out. But when you really look at it from, like, a big, bigger picture, like, these human beings are, like, coming in there already in a vulnerable, intimidated, like, state, and th- you are literally, like, changing their physical appearance. And so something... And s- and hair is so important to some people.

Mm-hmm. And, and it can be s- part of... A huge part of somebody's identity. And so you're, you're already dealing with something so, like, fragile and so important to a human being, and I think that you have to realize that we're not just doing that with the hair, but we are also doing that with our spaces, and our environment, and how somebody feels welcomed in, you know?

Would you agree with me? Oh, 1,000%. You know, you and I talked e- uh, earlier and w- and, you know, I mentioned that one of the first things that people say to me when I bring up, you know, my size, when I say, "Oh, I'm just fat," people will immediately say, "Oh, but you're so beautiful." And my response to them typically is, "I know I am, because being fat has nothing to do with how pretty I am or not."

Okay. It just is part of the picture. So, yes, I mean... And, I m- I've also joked with a, you know, with a couple of my hairstylist friends.

It's actually fat people who, um, who have great hair because we're not restricting all of the good things. We know that fats are really great for our hair, and so, yes, I'm joking, but at the same time, part of me isn't. Yeah, no- You know? So- ...

I think that's badass. R- right. So people who are extra healthy... Well fed.

I love that. They have, they have great hair. Yes. And, and yet at the exact same time, when you're also on this side of the scale, when you're grasping at anything to be acceptable in society- Mm-hmm.

if you have great hair, well, of course the place you wanna be is in a salon. Because a hairdresser can take you from extra special to incredible. I mean, I know I'm beautiful, but if I can have impeccable hair, and if I can have e- you know, excellent makeup skills, and if I can look put together c- you know, and, and comfortable all the time, why wouldn't I just be that much more spectacular? But if I can't find a hairdresser who can accommodate me and make me feel comfortable, it doesn't matter how beautiful I am, I am not going to feel comfortable at all in your space or with myself and I'm not gonna get my hair done.

And that salon, the person, is completely denying their own potential to make an impact- Mm-hmm. in somebody else's life, and you are making somebody feel excluded and making their life harder. Yup. Absolutely.

Thank you so much for sharing that. I love that so much. Mm-hmm. So people need to get on board.

Okay? I'm glad we're doing this podcast Hope y'all are taking notes, honey.Okay. So another thing that I think, like, of, like, kind of blew my mind a little bit, because I, again, I just personally have never had to think about these things, right?

Was mirrors. Let's talk about mirrors for a second. What's the tea with salon mirrors? Okay.

So, as a person of size, I myself have, you know... I, I've sat in styling chairs in front of a full-length mirror, because, let's face it, they are stunning. They're absolutely stunning. I love the look of so many salons that have these beautiful full-length mirrors in front of their station.

It's sleek, it's minimal, it's gorgeous, it's absolutely horrifying for somebody who is not comfortable with the way they look. You don't even have to be my size. But if you, if you f- if you fill up that chair just a little bit, or if you're just uncomfortable in the way that, you know, the, you know, your mom roll poke, poke, pokes out, or whatever it is, and then your second row after that, uh, whatever it is, when you're sitting in that chair and all you see... And let's face it, nobody is cute with a cape on anyway.

So you put a cape on them, and then they just have... It gets worse and worse and worse. And then they sit there, and if they're like my clients who are going to be in my chair for three to four hours, and you sit and stare at yourself for three to four hours and pick everything apart, you look like a drowned rat on top. So you have a little tiny drowned rat pinhead on top of this mammoth cape sha- you know, shape on inside of your chair, stuffed to no end.

It's horrifying. And I, I mean, maybe, uh, that was a little dramatic, but at the exact same time, it's not, because that's how you feel when you are stuffed inside of a chair and you don't fit in that chair, and then you get to just stare at yourself the entire time. And you know that everybody walking by can see you, you know how uncomfortable it is for you, you know that it's just not pretty. Right.

So full-length mirrors are horrible in the salon, in my opinion. They're gorgeous. I wish that I could have them, because they're stunning, but I won't do it because I won't... I, I personally won't, don't like doing it.

I don't, I don't want to sit in front of myself like that. Yep. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna force other people to do it as well. And I've actually had clients say to me, "Thank you for not having a giant mirror for me to sit in front of."

Yeah. I just, I shared with you that I made the switch in my suite after we had that conversation. And I, my clients have had the same reaction. And I even think about the team salon that I worked at.

We had a separate color room, and then we had a separate, like, styling station. So all the stations were in a different room than the color room. Okay. And there were no mirrors in the color room.

And I loved it selfishly. Mm-hmm. Let me tell you why I loved it selfishly. Because no client is, like, nitpicking and micromanaging what you're doing because they can't see what you're doing.

Right? It's amazing. And then also, they loved it because they're not staring at themselves for hours and hours and hours. And so, uh, you know, uh, you know, I'm not saying that everybody should just not have a mirror, uh, wherever they're going to be working or applying color, but- Right.

at least, like, have a mirror that is, is not, you know, displaying the entire picture for hours at a time, I guess, right? Totally. Yeah. I mean, you know, chest up.

Yeah. Most of... You know <<Because you know.>> And that's all they need to see anyway.

Exactly. Chest up. Yeah. And if their hair is, like, naturally past their, like, belly button, then, like- I don't know.

I think we need to cut, we need to cut those split ends, honey, like... Right? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

And then shampoo bowls was another thing. Am I right? Yes. Shampoo bowls.

That's the most vulnerable position that we put our clients in, especially when you ha- There, uh, uh, I wish that I could remember which one they are. I think everybody has a version of it. Um, I have one in my salon, but it's the big Cadillac, um, of all shampoo bowls that we all see in all the pictures, and we all go, "Oh my gosh, I would love that one." But I have one because that was what was requested from a stylist that was coming into my new space and she wanted one of those for her clients.

That's what she had. That's what, you know... I know that it's popular. So I have two different s- I have two different shampoo stations in my, uh, you know, in my salon.

One that I know is size inclusive, and then the other one. Clients don't know that that's what it is. They really truly don't. But they c- they're color coordinated.

The bowls are similar. I mean, they're both a backwash kind of shampoo, so it doesn't look strange. I've never had anybody ever question why we have two different shampoo bowls. You know, in my pictures, I don't think it looks weird because they're completely color-coordinated.

But the big Cadillac one that everybody loves right now that you lie back in almost completely, you know, lying back, and it's the big and molded and beautiful and cushy and it looks fabulous, your legs go up, all the things, they're terribly uncomfortable and very, uh, exposing. That's the only word that's coming to mind right now. But you just feel exposed, because like I said earlier, I, I have some measurements of those. Um, the armrest on, on that particular chair is eight inches.

So from the seat to the armrest. So you put your butt in there, so, you know, you get somebody with a large bootylicious bottom like I have that's beautiful, and then they have, you know, a stomach in front too, well then, it's gonna, there's gonna be some, you know, there's gonna be more height than just eight inches. 'Cause I don't know anybody who's only eight inches deep. I just don't know very many people.

I mean, we cut more hair off of people than that all the time. But, so there's eight inches. The, that's it. So then you have, for, like I've already said, I'm 18 inches from, you know, from back to front.

So if I'm 18 inches back to front, that means 10 inches of me is up above that armrest, spilling over the top. And then I lie back and I am, you know, and I feel like just from my neck down, I am a complete, wide-open, exposed picture for the whole entire salon to see. And then on top of it, a lot of times I feel like I need to, you know, give people an arm... You're not familiar with this, this, this phrase, Hunter.

But when we go to the gynecologist and we're lying back and we got our feet up in the air, they give us an arm and say, "Here, let me help you up." And I feel like a lot of times when we're in those chairs, we have to, you know, "Here, let me help you up."And that can be for somebody who's not even half my size. And it's just, uh, yes, they're comfortable when you're in 'em if you fit in 'em, but if you're even slightly larger than that space that is given to us, then it's uncomfortable.

The wi- the width on those, I d- I looked online, um, the width on those seats is 20 3/4 side by side on the inside measurement. And so we've already said that, you know, that you should look for, like, 20 to 21 inches wide, which is good. But like I used myself as the example, I'm 26 inches side to side. So 20 in- so we'll just say 21.

That means five inches of me gets squished into that space, and the only place that it has to go is up. Because when you squish somebody side to side, then all of that's just gonna go up. So then that puts even more of me up into the air. It takes my, you know, my belly that I'm so not very proud of anyway, and it squishes it up.

And then it just is this mound of human that gets to be, you know, on top of this chair. And it's very uncomfortable. Right. So I get it.

If you want those chairs, I get it. But just take into consideration that, um, it's not gonna feel very comfortable for some clients. It just isn't. Thank you for sharing that.

You're welcome. Again, like, shit that, like, people wouldn't- wouldn't even consider, you know? And then, uh, another thing, anything that we'll close it out with this, 'cause it's just, like, a little bit more general, right? I mean, the most important things are, like, the styling chairs and the shampoo bowls chairs and, like, and those things.

Those are like... And the mirrors, right? Those are, like, very stylist specific. Right.

But besides those, you know, what about, like, the furniture in your waiting area, right? Mm-hmm. Um, what about just, like, the general furniture that you have, like, everywhere, right? I think you said, like, there's those, like, trendy chairs, right?

What were you talking about? Yes. The clear plastic trendy bucket chairs- Yes. they are so cute.

They're so cute. I love them. They're adorable. They're adorable.

And I really wanted one to work in for myself. I really did. And so I went and I sat in one and, oh, yeah, it was not happening. I mean, there's no way it was happening.

And I challenge people to really pay attention. This is a side note. It's kind of a tangent on this, and I'll get back to the other topic really quick. I mean, it's, it has to do with chairs, but if you have ever had somebody come in, and they might be a little bit larger, and they sit on the edge of the chair and they don't completely sit back into it, that's because their butt is wider than the chair, and they know that they can just barely get their bum on the edge, and then they'll just sit there, and you think, "Well, why doesn't she wanna get comfy?"

She is comfy, as comfy as she can be, because her butt doesn't fit in your small butt chair. And, you know, that's something that's true even for my daughter. And she's not, she's not a large girl. She's, she's an athlete.

She's, um, you know, she, she had six wrestling scholarships. She is trim, she is fit, she is athletic, but she is built like I am in the sense... But she's only 5'6". I say only 'cause like I said I'm almost 5, like, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm almost 6 feet tall.

So she's a taller-ish girl, but, I mean, she's pretty average. But she is curvy as all, curvy as all curvy. She's got the sh- I mean, she has the body that people want. She has a teeny tiny waist and she has, she has the cutest butt on the planet.

So I can say that 'cause I'm her mother. But even her, even with her and her life, she goes, "That's a small butt chair." Because even she is uncomfortable, and yet that girl is not at all fat. You know, she is highly athletic, and she is trim, and she's fantastic.

But even she says, "Small butt chair," because they just aren't made for people. And so when you're choosing your chairs, if you can choose chairs without sides, perfect. But then a lot... Th- the other thing that you need to take a look at is make sure that, like we already said before, make sure that the, the, um, the weight specifications will hold somebody who is of size.

A lot of dining room chairs, they're the same thing. They, you know, their weight, their maximum weight is, like, 199-ish. And it's, that's not realistic. So when you're looking at chairs for your waiting area, when you're looking at accent chairs, you know, 'cause we all know that accent chairs are fantastic in a salon.

It's cheaper than the really crazy waiting area furniture that most places will try and sell us. But accent chairs are great in the salon. But a lot of them will only go up to around 200, 220 pounds. And if you want to accommodate somebody like myself, you know, then you need to have something that will go up to 350 pounds Right, yeah.

I don't weigh that anymore, but I'm still over 300 pounds. Right. And 199 is, like, I mean, I feel like I know more people who are over that... I don't think- ...

than, than the other way around. And, you know, I would just thought about, um, God forbid, I mean, somebody, like, your chair falls apart and somebody gets really hurt in your waiting area. Yeah. You as a business are gonna be liable for that.

And then they're gonna look up, "Okay, what's the weight limit on this chair?" Right? And then it's gonna be on you, you know. Yep, exactly.

I feel like because you didn't make it, make them aware of the weight limit. Yes. So th- like, this is like, this is more than just, you know, making people feel included, which is, should be your number one priority. Right.

But this is also, like, the liability that you have of a business. And this is also your rep- your reputation- Right. as a business as well too. Right.

Yeah. And how humiliating would that be to se- to sit on the chair and then fall to the ground? Or let's just take it one step further. Let's just say, you know, a large person sits in the chair, cracks the chair, you don't know it, she doesn't know it, they don't know it.

But then, you know, the, the little girl comes in and she sits- Mm-hmm. in the chair, but it's because it's already previously broken, nobody knew that it was broken. She's plopped down in it, 'cause I, the other thing I guarantee you, no person of size just goes whomp and sits in the chair. We're all gingerly sitting in the chair 'cause we're like, "Ooh, is this gonna hold me?"

Mm-hmm. But, you know, you, you have somebody who comes in then, let's say they're, let's say they're 150, and they plop down in the chair- Mm-hmm. and kaboom, they break your chair. Then, you know, then, yes, like you're saying, you're the one who's liable for it, because then you had faulty, you know, equipment, and it didn't, it didn't hold them.

Or, let's say this, that, you know, the person of size, they sit in it, you're still liable for that because...... you didn't give them proper seating. Right. Yup.

The other thing I found, 'cause, you know, I wanted a really fabulous, cute, you know, couch, and I have, I have a really- Mm-hmm. fabulous purple, w- uh, velvet couch in my salon. I love that couch. I've seen pictures.

I love my couch. But- Yeah. I had to find one that w- had a good weight capacity. Because even- Yeah.

couches come with r- I mean, I'm, like, "Okay, so one person can sit on that?" Right. It doesn't make any sense. No.

I mean, so, you know, you, let's, let's say you have two average-sized people, it needs to be at least 450-pound weight capacity, and yet you would be surprised how many couches say, "250." Yeah. Right. So, yeah.

That's wild. Even couches. Even couches. Everything.

Mm-hmm. And, and again, like, going back, I'm just gonna say it again, it's, like, this is, this is what happens when somebody is opened up to, like, this world of m- being more inclusive and learning, and, and, and s- and understanding that there's other people out there who live these realities- Mm-hmm. that they, they don't live, right? And the awareness, and the purposefulness, and the intention is, like, so important if you want to be creating a space where you make people feel really comfortable.

And, you know, not only, like, I always, I've said this, like, with Christal L before, and whenever I'm talking about inclusivity, it's so funny because yes, you do have to sacrifice a little bit to be more inclusive, right? Absolutely. But it's, like, what you get out of that is so much more worth that small investment, uh, or that sacrifice, right? Mm-hmm.

But if you think about it, in the long run, like, on the backend of all of this, I mean, you are literally allowing more people into your business, and you will do better business, you will retain people so much better the more inclusive that you are, because your net is so much larger- Absolutely. because you're not pushing people out from the very beginning, right? And you said, you know, if you're walking into a space, if a person of size is, like, uh, considering walking into a space, like, they're most likely gonna be checking out your pictures and stuff like that, right? Oh, absolutely.

Uh, you know, one of the, uh, you know, just as a person of size, I mean, we, this is something that, you know, sometimes we've thought about. You know, when you, uh, restaurants, they need to think about their seating. And, you know, n- uh, so, you know, even for restaurants, we l- we take a minute, as a person of size, you take a minute to find out what kind of ch- seats they have, and then you go- Yeah. "Uh, yeah.

No. I can't go there," or, "Oh, yeah. I can go there." Same thing with a salon.

Y- this- Right. you know, the, it never occurred to me when I was, you know, when I was tall and thin and beautiful, pre-children, and all the things, you know, m- I didn't think about these things. I did not- Right. think about these things the way that I do now.

And the larger I got, and the, you know, the harder it was for me, I just thought, "Okay. This has to be something that I embody within my own salon." Because salon equipment is one of the worst offenders. Right.

Well, thank you so much for all of this, like, beautiful and such important insight, Heather. Thank you for sharing your own story with it, too, because, and just being vulnerable and sharing that all. And I just, and also, I, I commend you for how confident you are in yourself, because I just, again, I think it's really inspiring for a lot of people. But it should not stop somebody from doing the damn work and realizing that these are people's realities, you know?

Absolutely. And so, I thank, I thank you, my friend, listening to this, for tuning in. And what I really hope that you do with this episode is that you take in really good notes, and that you do plan on making changes if you need to make changes. But Heather, again, thank you so much for coming on here and spilling the tea with me.

I really do appreciate you a lot. Thank you for having me. It's a, it's a, it's a topic that we need to talk about. Totally.

And what I would love to do is have you back on the podcast to talk about other things- ... because I know that you are an expert in so m- you are such a well-rounded leader, and you just have so many different things that you are the expert in, and I would absolutely love to, um, to make sure that people know to come to you for multiple things, right? We got photography. We got booth rental salon ownership.

We got leadership, right? We got all the things. And so, people, where can people find you if they want to, um, connect with you and learn more from you moving forward? My Instagram is heatherjudstylist.

That's the easiest, quickest place to find me. Fantastic. And so, we'll make sure to leave, um, Heather's, uh, Instagram handle in the show notes, and I hope to have you on here again, Heather. I would love it.

Dude, I love it. Okay. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Modern Hair Stylist podcast today. If you enjoyed this episode, please go ahead and leave a five-star testimonial wherever you're listening to this.

I would really appreciate if you would do that to help us reach more beauty professionals just like you. And we will see you in the next episode of the Modern Hair Stylist podcast. Peace out, girl scout. Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2022 Hunter Donia LLC.