Tap In To Your Potential To Change The Industry & The World with Texture Vs. Race ft. Keya Neal

Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist Podcast. Today, I am just so pumped up because I just got done having the most excellent conversation with the one and only Kia Artistically Neal. Kia is somebody who is super special to me.

She has truly changed my life in so many different ways, and I've learned so much from her. And it's so crazy how I never fail to learn more and more and more, and continuously be mind-blown every single time I learn from her or talk to her. And I'm really excited that you get to be a part of the conversation today by listening to this episode, and I encourage you to listen to this all the way through for two reasons. Number one, this is some important stuff.

It's important stuff that you and I have the responsibility and the potential to truly take and run with and make a massive difference with. Like, you and I as hairstylists, as service providers, we talk about this in the episode, we have so much power to make a difference in the world, and I really will encourage you today to listen to this all the way through and listen how you can make that happen, all right? And Kia spilled some crazy tea with us at the end about a special gift that she's giving to just us Modern Hairstylist Podcast listeners. So make sure that you're tuned in all the way through the end so you can hear about that surprise.

I hope that you love this episode just as much as I did. Let's get into it. Let's go. What's the tea, friend?

My name's Hunter Donia, industry business educator for hairstylists, but my friends just call me Hunty. Whether it be growing your clientele, making more money, or automating and streamlining your systems, in the next 20 minutes or so, you'll be hearing realistic, actionable strategies to create a beautiful career for yourself behind the chair. So if you're ready to get into it, welcome to the Modern Hairstylist Podcast. Hello, my friends.

Welcome back to the Modern Hairstylist Podcast. Today is a super special episode because I have a good friend and a massive powerhouse, a changemaker, a trailblazer on the pod with me today, and that is Kia Artistically Neal. What is going on, Kia? How are you doing today?

Hello, Hunter. How are you? So good to be here. Hello to everyone that's listening, all of you modern hairstylists out there.

I'm good. Dude, I am so happy myself to have you. I'm really honored that you are carving out some time to be with us today and to spill some tea about some really cool things that I've been able to experience just a half of in the past- ... because we're bringing it to a whole new level.

A whole nother level - A whole new level. as we say. A whole nother level. Yeah, dude.

So I'm really excited about that. But before we get into it, just in case, uh, anybody's listening to this who does not know who you are, would you mind introducing yourself for us, Kia? Absolutely. So everyone, my name is Kia Neal.

I am @KiaArtistically on Instagram. I am the founder of the Color Culture and the Texture vs. Race Movement where I lead a group of like-minded individuals who want to see the industry evolve into a more inclusive space where we are inclusive of all textures, because hair is a fabric, not a race. And we do that through education, network, community, consulting, coaching, and we, we want to see us create a space in the industry where we see hair through the lenses of art and science.

And so I'm just really excited to be here with you, Hunter, because I know that, you know, your listeners are, are ones that want to know more information and, and that they want to connect and partner with us into being, creating a space where everyone is thriving. Yeah. Absolutely. I love that.

And you just do such a beautiful job at creating those spaces, and I personally recommend everything, getting involved in everything that Kia does- Aw. because you're just so excellent. I, I always... I'm always at a loss for words to express to you- Mm-hmm.

how much I look up to you and how much the work that you're doing is so appreciated and so unfortunately underrated as well, too. People do not give you your flowers enough, and I just need you to know that like, you are absolutely just... you're making such an impact in the industry that is so thankless, and I'm here to say, I see you. There's so many people out there who see you and are rooting you on, and we just appreciate the work that you're doing so much.

And I'm really excited to be sharing more about that work, uh, with the audience here today. So you shared that you're the founder of Texture vs. Race. Uh, you've got Color Culture going on, s-...

and i-... with these things, right, you create those spaces, you create the change, we move the movement, right, to create, uh, more inclusivity within the industry. And so would you mind telling us a little bit about those initiatives? Yeah, absolutely.

First of all, thank you for that, Hunter. And I can tell you now, it's not so much a thankless, um, space to be in more than it is a, is a, a laborious space to be in. But, you know- Mm-hmm. what I find is that I do get people that say, "Thank you, I love what you're doing.

I'm here for you. I support you." I just get it in the back office more. Mm-hmm.

And I would love to see more of those footprints and fingerprints outside. Mm-hmm. And because of the nature of the conversations that we have, sometimes people are more likely to share all of that love and flowers in the DMs or, you know? Right.

When they see me, they hug, then they... And while I love that, like, that serves as such a, a huge level of support for me and it does keep me going, I think one of the things that I would love is for that...... inward expression of support to be expressed in a forward-facing way- Hmm. and for people to really put more effort into their activation more than their emotions behind it.

So, thank you for that, 'cause I, I can't say that people don't say it, you know, people don't- Right. acknowledge it. I just wish they were doing more to be activated. Which leads me right into what Texture Versus Race is really about, like, what are those activations and how does that look?

So, you know, Texture Versus Race came about, Hunter, off of the heels of The Color Culture. And for those that don't know, I am a colorist by... in, in my specialty. My niche is color.

Like, I teach color from the basic all the way to the advanced, because I never thought that color education was really as thought out, as you will. Even at the basic school level, I don't believe people really understood the science of color, um, to a point where they could be critical thinkers. Mm. And, you know, in achieving or creating the curriculum, I realized that everyone needed that education.

It wasn't just Black people, and I knew that Black people would benefit the most from my education, but I was pleased to know that I was making impact in a multicultural way. But what I didn't realize is that people were separating my curriculum from being as a standard for all textures. They were still looking for me to isolate that texture in a Black-white way, a Black and white way. And that caused me some, some pause, okay?

'Cause I was like, okay, so you're still hearing this from a scientific space and you still think there's something separate about doing it on curls and coils. And it caused me to question, why are people having such trepidation with, you know, the transferring and, and assimilating the same information across the whole spectrum of texture? And that's how Texture Versus Race was born, really. It was the answer to a question that was burning inside of me.

Mm-hmm. It was, if we learn all of this as a standard, why are we still separating the information and the execution by race? And that's where Texture Versus Race came from. So, we created another, uh, level of, of connection.

It was a point of connection. It was never about the curriculum at first. It was about the point of correction in our thinking. It was about, how do we see hair as a fabric, not a race, and how do we delve into the social aspect?

Because one of the things that I said in my very first Texture Versus Race class is, is it about the hair or is it the person in the chair? And that sort of took the air out of the room completely, because we were now faced with saying, are you more afraid... Do you believe that you don't have the mental capacity to learn, or are you just afraid of the person that inhabits this, this texture? Are you afraid, um, of approaching?

Are you lacking education of cultural competence? Are you lacking the language? Are you lacking the rules of engagement? And all answers were checked yes.

And so, we created opportunities for us to come together to learn standard information, but the moral development and the activation on all textures of hair, and to see how they differ, but how they're also very similar. Um, creating that movement started as a, a class at a summit, at the ABCH Summit, and then it moved into a, a group where we wanted to have these conversations, these very, what I call drawers-down conversations, right, where people could ask things that they wouldn't normally just ask someone on the street and just couldn't get that information. We created a safe space for people to have the honest conversations, and then it turned into a movement, because it was like, okay, well, we can't just do it ourselves. There has to be a call on the schools, the curriculums- Mm-hmm.

the brands, the marketing, the, the whole industry at large, and it became a movement. Then it became a summit. And it was like, well, let's get together. Mm-hmm.

Let's just do something. Then it was, um, then it was curriculum, and it's, it's like education. It's, it's having those powerful conversations for us to be able to be free and to be liberated from our limited thinking- Yeah. when it comes to texture and Black people specifically.

And I think we've done a good job, Hunter, of creating a, a course of action for people, and that looks like doing the personal work, because the evolution of one's hands has to start when their mind is opened. Mm-hmm. And when your mind is open to receive, then your heart can process. And when your heart processes things differently, then the way your hands move inevitably is going to be different as well, and it's gonna be more thoughtful, and it's gonna be with more honoring, and it's gonna be with more understanding, more exposure.

And that might be one of the best ways I have put that, 'cause this is the first time I've used this exact set of words. I'm glad it's recorded, because I'm gonna- ... actually take this as a snippet. Hell, yeah.

No, I mean, it's freaking excellent. A- a- and I... from my own experience, you know, learning and working with you, I can absolutely attest to that, you know? And it's with such welcome and open arms, right?

Like, I feel like if somebody comes to you with open ears, true open ears, right, like, an open mind, uh, with being able to have those draws-down conversations, right, being willing to do that, then you really welcome people with open arms and you put them in an environment where real change and real movement happens within their minds and the community around them as well. And it's just so freaking beautiful, like, truly. Well, you know, the thing is, is just, just really quick, Hunter, is that what, what I really have a problem with-For myself, personally, if I could just be really transparent, right? Yeah.

I think one of the things I have a problem with is selling an experience. People, people say they don't want to be sold and they want to buy, but I, I, I would really implore people to understand that I can't sell the experience. I can't package it up nice enough where you go, "Oh, this looks like a great package to buy. This looks like a moment, you know, something for me to purchase and be in."

Th- this is an experience. This is very emotional. This is very individualistic. Yeah.

It has to do with, i- it has to do with your buy-in of the, of the notion that I can have a life-changing experience being exposed to something and someone else. Yeah. It's the ability to allow that experience and exposure to have change and affect your life and your thinking. It's being open to that.

And I never really know how to package that up in a little bit of, with a bow on it- Right. because people are deathly afraid of what they don't know, and I just keep saying, "If you just come, you will get what you need, because everything you need is going to be in the room." We've said that from day one. Everything and everybody, there's an answer to everything.

There's a person that can identify, a person that could be the salve to your healing, a person that could help you see perspectives differently or add to your perspectives. And so, it's, it's just really hard for me to convince someone if they're not already sorta emotionally and mentally invested- Yeah. in the movement. That totally makes sense.

It's difficult to make something tangible when it is so- It is. individualized to each, every human being, right? Like- Mm-hmm. And having their own transformative experience, and because you're offering so many different ways and solutions of making that happen as well too, right?

It's so difficult to just, like, pinpoint, like, "Yes, this is exactly what's gonna happen for you when you come here." Exactly. There's no way, like, if I said, "How to ma- how to streamline your business," and I said- Right. "I can give you eight ways, you know, business taxes, menu, services, leadership, X, Y, Z, X, Y," it's, it's hard to do that, and I'm working on it, because I real- Yeah.

I'm working on it, but I'm gonna tell you, it's really tough. Yeah, dude. It's, it's really tough, but I'm working on it. So y'all be patient with me, but while you're being patient, walk with me.

I'm here to walk with you, and hopefully our audiences as well too listening to this. Um, it is really tough, I guess, as creatives, like, as, I mean, everybody listening to this can probably relate. We're hairdressers, right? Like, it's so difficult as creatives to play within the rules of what you're supposed to do and what you're not supposed to do when it comes to, like, business- Right.

and selling and marketing, et cetera, et cetera, especially when it's something to the caliber of what you are delivering to human beings, which I think is just great. So in the past, maybe, in the past, maybe this can possibly give some perspective in that way. In the past, maybe in past TVRs- Mm-hmm. what, maybe, maybe, like, what has been an activity or a circumstance- Mm-hmm.

that maybe sticks out in your mind, um, that you felt or you saw created a lot of transformation in the room? Absolutely. So one, if I had to be a, you know, have a bullet point, yes, you're gonna learn technique, right? You're gonna learn- Mm-hmm.

you know, how to work with different fabrics. You're going to learn, um, specifically the curriculums required, right? We're gonna learn product. We're gonna learn all of these things.

Yes, those are bullet points, right? That's texture education. We got that. But you know what, Hunter?

One of the things that really, really shocked me in one of our sessions that sorta changed the trajectory of how we did texture versus race was, we, we got together with a, a company, a big beauty company, and they allowed us three days with, like, 100 of their stylists, and they closed their flagship salons for three days, paid them, paid them to pay time off to be at this space. And we had created all of these different opportunities of activation, right? Like, we had all the styling technique. We had all of the, you know, I mean, when I tell you we had three days worth of nothing but curriculum, and people were stuck at the shampoo bowl.

People were stuck in this, this space of, "I'm looking at it dry. I'm looking at all of these live models. I'm listening to this person's experience. I'm having an active consultation.

I, I already, I approached this person with all of my stereotypes, and quite frankly, my biases, right?" Yep. "Which doesn't, does nothing but fuel fear, right?" Yep.

"And I'm approaching and I'm, and I'm already, you know, I'm, I'm already fearful, but it's showing. My hands are shaking. My palms are sweating, and I'm already thinking, what in the world is getting ready to happen here?" And this is the, this is the people, and we're watching their faces, and we're saying, "No, come, touch, feel, you know, observe, experience," but when we took them to the bowl and the hair started to melt under the submission of water and we, we said, "Touch it, feel it, now observe it and tell me," the biggest ah-has was, "I had no idea.

I had no idea that it could look one way and perform another." Mm-hmm. "I'm absolutely familiar. I can see what you're saying.

It's transferred from visual to physical," right? "A physical manifestation through my hands, because now I can see it, feel it, touch it," and I think we broke a lot of chains- Yeah. on people, because they understood at that point, what they were afraid of that looked like a, a monster from afar, now up on it and experienced, was like, "Oh." it's not that bad.

It's not so tough. Someone told me it was hard. Someone told me it was just too fragile to ta- to, to touch. Someone told me that it was like burlap and that I would cut my finger.

Like, people had all these biases and stereotypes that they were bringing to the table, and we were dismantling them one at a time, one at a time. Right. And people's minds were blown. We didn't have to do any styling after that, right?

Like, it was... That was just extra. Right. It was...

It was taking away the fear of the unknown. Yeah. And it was showing them that what looked like a huge mountain from afar was really only a ha- a ant hill up close. Right.

And I think that, to me, changed how we did things, because now we've implemented that same function of we, we, we've coined it our Hydro Discovery Clinic- Mm-hmm. where we br- And that's what we're doing at TVR. We did it last year as well, where we created a clinic-style floor where we had all live models and everyone was able to, in round robin style, experience all of these different textures on all people, like every race. Like, they had...

We had people that were lighter in complexion that had the, you know, more kinkier, curlier hair, and we had people that were much darker that had, um, straighter, wavier hair. Like, it was just... It was crazy to see people's minds being blown. And we're absolutely walking that out at Texture Versus Race this year, again, the Hydro Discovery Clinic, where you get to experience texture- Yeah.

and dismantle your fear, and your bias, your stereotype, and things that have in- that have innately been installed that you don't even know where it came from, that you- Right. just carry. And we're saying, "Give it to us. Let us put that to the side and show you different."

So I'm really proud of that. Yeah, how liberating. I'm so glad that you brought up that point and you closed it out that way, because that's sw- what was in my brain this entire time. Like, how liberating is it- Yes.

to un- to even, like, be able to self-reflect on and, like, face, face it head-on, like, "This is what I've been taught. These are the misconceptions that have been ignorantly implanted in my brain," and be able to deconstruct that, right, in that circumstance, and to have the privilege, for us to have the privilege of to, to access that type of space, right, to have that type of environment where it's designed for that to happen, you know, um, with open arms is just so powerful. Like, that is so freaking cool. And I love that.

And I love that, you know, we get to bring everybody to the table, but one of the things that I have to say is, is that we have the same responses from Black people. Hmm. Because I think the biggest misconception is that Black people just know all about texture- Mm-hmm. because they're Black.

And b- even if they have the texture, there's an unlearning and a relearning around texture as it grows out of the head, and I think people don't talk about that enough. And I realize that, because I'm like, Black people need to get into this education as well, because we have been inundated with trying to straighten it to death. Right. Anybody that's been in more than, like, more than, like, 15 years, they're, they're very versed in relaxers, silk out, blowouts, anything to make it look like this still.

Mm-hmm. And so that unlearning has to happen. And that understanding of how the hair grows out of the head and how to manage it, how to tend to it, how to approach it, how to, uh, get results, f- you know, and, and keep it healthy and healing and growing and all of those things, and not feel the need to straighten it, because we can love it that way. That's a...

that's a heart transformation there too. Yeah. And so I love it for everybody that comes to Texture Versus Race. We all are liberated and we all find our own personal f- uh, spaces of freedom- Yeah.

at Texture Versus Race. I love that. I... And such a good point.

I, I remember m- one of my biggest, like... I had so many ahas at, at our- At my first CVR, it was insane. I could... I couldn't even list them all.

But that was a huge eye-opener to me, something that I had just been so ignorant to, because I had not surrounded myself and been immersed in such diverse spaces before, right, unfortunately. And we had some beautiful open conversations with each other. I was able to be in such a diverse, beautiful room of people, asking all the questions, learning, going through their own transformations. And one of my biggest ahas, which wa- is what you just shared, is the inequity of the way that we're educated when...

as far as different textures go. It runs deeper. It run... It, it, it affects everybody.

It's not just, oh, like, I, as a white person, don't know how to do textured hair, right? It, it's... Now it, it affects everybody in the room, you know? And so it really does apply.

This type of education does apply to the entire industry as a whole, right? And when you talk about equity, you have to think about it like this too. I also wanna pull this point, was when Texture Versus Race became very popular, um, after George Floyd was murdered, a lot of people started diving into texture education and everybody was scrambling to either provide texture education or get texture education. And so my thought there was, well, what happens when...

if... And I'm just... For basic's sake, like y'all don't get... y'all don't get mad at me.

Like, I'm gonna use the word white, just like I'm gonna use the word Black. Please do. That's what we... Okay, we gonna do that.

If white people are familiar and work with white people predominantly, and Black people are familiar with Black people and their hair and they work with Black people predominantly, and white people are now having this huge wave of working with curly hair and Black people, but Black people don't learn how to do white people and their straight or wavier hair, then what are we getting ready to see? Hmm. Economic disproportion, right? We're still gonna see economic unrest and economic- Wow.

harm to, to the Black community, the stylists of Black community. So now there has to be...... an equitable space where Black people can learn how to work on straight and wavier hair by actually being able to have clients that don't look like them either. Hmm.

They have to. And this is how we level the playing field. So we did an event called Reparations, where we offered Black people, on a scholarship level, education on just straight and wavy hair so that we could level the playing field. And it was phenomenal.

Yeah. You know? And I, I don't think people think enough about it in a, in a more global perspective of how all of this, even where we are right now, is affecting every community on every term. Yeah.

Right. So freaking excellent and mind-blowing. And, you know, I think that that's also an important point for me, f- just what comes up for me is, there's always so much more to learn as well. Like, there's...

It's never gonna end as far as the levels of how much more we can dive into to make a more equitable- Mm-hmm. industry, a more inclusive industry, better spaces to allow ev- all people to be in salons and feel actually welcome and included. And if somebody's listening to this right now... Like you said, I feel like everybody scrambled for inclu- a DEI education after George F- George Floyd's murder.

I feel like if you're listening to this now and you're like, "Oh, I took, like, a curly course. I'm good," right? Or like, "Oh, yeah. I did that one event and I'm good."

Uh, what would you say to those people? I would say two things. Be careful of scratching an immediate itch, right? And being okay with saying, "Oh, I checked this box off, and I did that."

Because it's not really healing the world. 'Cause this isn't really about you having that one technical skill. This is about you changing the heart and mind of yourselves as an individual so that you become impactful behind the chair to the person in the chair, and so that they become impactful at their own kitchen tables, their dining room tables and their family reunions and on their job and in their communities. This is about affecting the entire diaspora of, of us as existing together in this country.

And it, and it... And I don't wanna sound like it just goes so far, but you do have an obligation to be a part of a world that is inclusive to everybody, and that only happens when you check and center yourself and see where you're playing out. Because, yes, you might be able to take that one curly and do a little something with it and feel good about yourself, but what have you done to create a safer environment for everybody else? Right.

Have you, have you really dwelled into making, creating a space where people trust you and want to sit in your chair, and feel comfortable sitting in the next person's chair that might be in your salon? And, and most importantly, h- uh, how do you feel about people outside of the salon? How do you interact with people that are different from you for... in whichever way?

How do you react and, and how do you create a safe existence for everybody? And I just think we have a responsibility to ourselves to not hang our hats on the one little thing that we did, because this is a personal work that runs deep. And I don't wanna make it sound so deep, but it is deep- It is. because it affects so many people so many ways.

And so... It's such a widespread thing. Elizabeth Faye says it best. You know, she always says, "Hairstylists can change the world."

And so we have a social responsibility all the way across the board. But even if we left it to just in the salon, how much work have you done to create a space where everyone feels welcome at the door? Yeah. Even if you never learned how to do that hair, would they walk away going, "Well, this was nice.

I'll still come back for X, Y, Z, because, you know, Hunter's a bomb at color. I mean, he said he might not be able to do a twist-out, but he can do some color." "Right? I might come back for that."

Right. A- And it's all about the delivery sometimes, you know? It's all about how we handle things. Like, do we have, like I said, the, the, the cultural competence to understand and to show up in a space that creates safety and trust and welcoming and belonging for people that don't look like us?

And I'll tell you, when I speak out about these things, I get people from all different intersections that come in my DMs and goes, "Thank you for saying that. I experience that as a disabled person." Right. "I experience that, you know, through fat phobia.

I experience that through the LGBTQ community. Like, I experience that through all these different intersections." People are constantly in my DMs like, "Thank you, because you're speaking for me still." Right.

So we just gotta be mindful of ourselves as humans and understand that we don't need to check a box. Don't check a quick box. If it didn't hurt you, it... you didn't do enough.

Hmm. If you didn't sacrifice, you didn't do enough. If you weren't uncomfortable in it, you didn't do enough. You gotta do enough.

D- And how you know you're doing enough is when you're ready to quit. Hmm. When you say, "I ain't... I'm not doing this.

I'm just, uh-" "... The heck with all of this. Like, I'm not... Mm-mm."

That's when you know you are on the right track. I love that. And I would love to amplify that, too. Like, when I, when I teach about LGBTQ+ inclusivity, it's one thing to, like, hang a pride flag outside of your salon, right?

Right. But, like, it's another thing to actually make those people feel welcome when they walk into the door, you know? I found when I was, like, doing some research for that and I was, like, polling stylists about those things, people would be like, "Why do I have to do anything special? Why do I have to learn anything special?"

I'm like, "Well, because people have different experiences tha- than you do, which requires a different type of approach to those things and a different type of understanding." Um, and that's why I love so much also that you're not just teaching the technique, right? We're also changing the minds, so that way, we can create that entire amazing experience for the entire industry. And also, I just appreciate you so much speaking about the power that we have as hairstylists, the potential, the untapped potential, and the unrecognized potential that we have to change the world, truly.

Listen, that, that right there, the untapped-... the unrecognized, and the, and just the, the, the mo- the gross mishandling of the potential. Yeah. We could do so much behind the chair, because people don't realize that besides the church, for the most part, the stylists are the only entity in industry that has that much influence on a single individual when we come in contact with them.

Yeah. We can change their minds emotionally. We can change how people see themselves. We can change how they see each other.

We can change how they view the world, because they learn through us. They adopt trends through us. We tell them what's right, wrong, in, out. You know what I'm saying?

We say what looks good, what doesn't, what's gonna be attractive, what isn't. But we do that not even just through hair. We do that through social norms as well. Our clients take cues from us.

The reason why... And I'm gonna just go down this hole just for a quick second. I ain't gonna go down the rabbit hole, but I'm gonna go down this little street right here. The reason why white people have a problem with going in Black salons is 'cause they've been so inundated in thinking that white spaces are the superior and that this is the space they belong, and only white people should be able to do their hair.

And if a Black person comes into a white salon to work, then they must be exceptional- Mm-hmm. and they are the exception to the rule. But there's not a lot of times where you see white clients that will go into a predominantly Black salon where they are outnumbered in minority, because they're not groomed to feel that way. Right.

So, like I said, creating social norms of seeing people come into the salons, you have a chance to course correct thinking. You gotta see, this is more... It's, it's very social. It's not just about the hair.

It's about- Right. it's, it's very social as well, right? It's... Ooh, I remember when I was working in a white salon, and the clients, when they didn't, when they weren't used to me, they would go, "Oh, it sure does look different around here."

It was like I was a new decor, you know? It was like, "Wow. Gosh, y'all sure have a lot of them in here." Like, "Where did this come from?"

"How does it change?" Because they're so used to seeing it one way. And here's the other thing. Black people do the exact same thing.

When white people come into our spaces by chance, "Be quiet, be quiet. Everybody be quiet. Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. Let's..."

You know, "You gotta act right. You gotta..." So we code switch even when it's our own space- Right. because of the understanding that we've created around mixing the spaces.

But if we were more... If we normalized that, and we kn- then we would understand that, no, they're in our space, we don't have to change to accommodate anybody. They're trying to create an environment that they think is more white. And I think that, again, coming to Texture Versus Race does help us normalize how we see each other and how we are exi- co-existing in our spaces.

We have to have the cultural competence to understand each other and understand how to create the more safer, the welcoming, and the more belonging, and how everyone s- feels that coming into the door. But I definitely wanna make sure that we don't have to create an environment that we think is more conducive to what whiteness looks like. And I wanna make sure that that's, that's clear. That's one of the things we work on is, uh, again, that social aspect of the salons and the spaces being so segregated that none of us know how to really engage with each other.

And the engagement is heavy on the Black people that go into white salons and have to assimilate to that environment. And so, we're teaching people how to create spaces where everyone can feel welcome and feel like they belong without changing the essence of who we are. Nobody. I freaking am obsessed with what you do, and I'm so appreciative to it.

And for you listening to this, my friend, if you are ready, even if you're a little scared, even if you're a little hesitant, if you are ready, and if you are willing to muster up the courage to walk into a beautiful, welcoming space that will truly transform and liberate you, and allow you to tap into that potential that you have to truly change the world, then, uh, I highly recommend attending this year's Texture Versus Race. I'll be teaching there, and there will be- Yay. so many other artists and powerhouse educators there as well, and so many like-minded individuals who will just make you feel so welcomed and teach you so much and give you a experience of a lifetime, truly. So Kia, if there's anything else that you'd like to share, I'd love to hear it, about Texture Versus Race or anything like that.

And if you wouldn't mind sharing with the listeners a little bit about, uh, where, where they can go, what they can do, how they can get into the room, then I would love to hear it. For anybody looking to come to Texture Versus Race, okay, I wanna just say this. One, this is, this is a hair show. It's educational.

It's just that it's staffed and supported by people who want to see the industry evolve. They are people who understand that their work, their niche, their specialties, their gifts, their curriculums include all textures and fabrics. It's not an isolation. I don't want you to be afraid, like, "Oh, I'm not willing to go have these racial conversations."

We're not gonna throw you in a hot seat. It's not, it's not like that. It's about creating an experience where everyone has the same feelings about the next person. And that's it, because we all want to be there.

And because you have been hanging in here so long and listening, I wanna offer you a special code, because I love my Modern Hairstylist fam- ... because I have been... Listen, this might be my second or third podcast. I know we've done several lives, and I always enjoy our conversation, and people always hit me up in a DM like, "I heard you with Hunter.

I loved it. I'm connected." So I wanna just say, if you wanna join us, like, really, use code MODERNHAI-... TVR.

One word. And this is gonna get you $200 off of your ticket. Oh, my gosh. That is crazy.

It is crazy, but what's crazier is you not being there. And I wanna remove any stumbling block that you have for coming to TVR. I want you in the room because the more people that are in the room, the more impact we are having on the world. We need your support.

We need you to be there. And we just really wanna share our, like I said, our gifts and our talents with you. We just wanna make sure that it's inclusive of everybody, right? So TEXTURE.

Look, modernTEXTURE, modernTVR, modernandTVR. That's one word. Use that code, go to textureversusrace.com.

The link is also in my bio. I'm sure Hunter's gonna share this information for you. You don't have to scramble to write it down. There'll be a direct link for you to click somewhere.

But thank you so much for listening up to this point. If you're hearing this, then you have been a rider, and I am here for you. Thank you so much, Kia. Again, I never have th- the right words to explain how much I appreciate you, but I very much do.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this podcast, sharing with my audience today, and I'm so freaking excited for this year's TVR. It is going to be next level. So my friend listening to this, I hope to see you there. It's going to be an amazing time.

Um, and yes, we will leave all that information in the show notes for you so you can just go, wherever you're listening to this, check out the description of the episode and we'll have it linked right there for you, including that crazy $200 off, which is so generous and wild. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Did we even say when it was?

March 17th through 19th in Baltimore, Maryland. BWI is easy to get in and out of from, from anywhere. You have no excuse. Like, be there.

Be there. Yes. Uh, and I did not have the privilege of going to last year's, and the venue's supposed to be, like, absolutely amazing, right? Oh, my gosh.

So just, so just hear me out. Last year, we did it at a, a Black history museum centered around Frederick Douglass. Mm-hmm. This year, we're doing it at the Reginald F.

Lewis Museum in Baltimore, Maryland. Amazing space. It's a four-story museum, and we're gonna be activating and educating in every space that's available for us- Wow. and places.

Look, and one of the, one of the most special things before we go that I really wanted to share is the huddles. And the huddles are like little, small meetup groups where we can have those pocket conversations amongst people who want to have those conversations. Mm-hmm. So we might say, "Hunter, I wanna ask, you know, I wanna talk to you about this particular subject line," and then a group of people may meet you during lunch for, like, 15, 20 minutes- Yeah.

to just talk about this particular thing. Or we may create space for, for me to have a, a open conversation where people can Q&A with me for, you know, about 30 minutes or so, just in isolated little pockets and spaces. And I'm so excited about that because I don't think we always get the opportunity to really connect and network with the artist and with the educator, and this is gonna be... Every educator's gonna be available for this, and I think it's gonna be so magical.

Yeah, high-quality, high-touch, personalized- Yes. transformation and education. Bad-ass. Absolutely.

So freaking cool. All right, my friends. Like I said, check out the link in the show notes, uh, get that $200 off, take advantage, and I will see you at TVR, hopefully. Thank you so much, Kia.

I appreciate you so much. Thank you, Hunter. Yes, and I'll catch you guys next time in the next episode. Peace out, girl scout.

Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2024 Hunter Donia LLC.