Why ChatGPT is Trash w/ Lisa Huff & Jodie Brown

Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the Modern Hairstyles podcast. And also, Lisa, do you wanna give, like, a little, like, welcome back to... So welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations.

Um, hello, my friends, wherever you're tuning in from. We are so excited to, uh, be on this pod today. We have myself, Hunter Donia. We have Lisa Hough and Jodi Brown on the pod today to chat a little bit about ChatGPT and then also AI in general.

And this episode isn't gonna be, like, the sexiest, hottest, you know, tips and, and use cases for, uh, AI and stuff. We actually have, I have a episode that's gonna go out for that soon. But first, I think it's gonna be important to cover actually, like, what this looks like particular to our industry and outside of our industry a little bit, and how it's being used right now, what we all are seeing in our own communities and our customers and how they're using it, um, and how we are possibly approaching this in a way in which it's doing a little bit more harm than good. And I also wanna touch on the ethical part of all this and some hard-hitting topics that I've been challenged with when I'm talking about AI to my students today.

And so we're really gonna get into it. So if you are interested in the whole AI conversation, if you've been using ChatGPT for your business or AI for your business, I highly recommend that you listen to this entire episode, because again, a lot of our community are using it and we're seeing weird stuff happen, and we don't want that to happen. Feels like a layer of insurance/protection before we dive into all the fun ways to use it. Let's be mindful ahead of time- I love that.

and set the st- set the tone, yes. I love that. I, I think, I think we all are... 'Cause y- here's the tea y'all.

I was just saying before we started recording this that, like, these are my business besties, okay? Like, these are people that I talk to on the daily, on a very often, uh, uh, uh, basis, and we relate and we talk about th- all this stuff all the time. And, you know, we have found so many beautiful ways to use it and we've been able to see, I've seen, uh, it make a huge impact in my business, I've seen it make a huge impact in my students' businesses, um, and we want to make sure that everybody's just using it beautifully and responsibly, and tapping into the massive potential that it has. So with that being said, the very first thing that I wanna talk about is Lisa put it as using it as a tool instead of a crutch.

So Lisa, do you think that you could kick off this conversation? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's crazy how long it's been around for now. You talk to some people and they're still like, "I don't even know what Chat GP- ChatGPT is.

I've never used it. I've never, like, downloaded it on my phone." But it's been, what, two years at this point? Two and a half years?

Um, I don't know- I'm sure. if you've officially, uh, introduced Jodi yet, so hello, J- Hi, this voice is Lisa Hough. Oh, hey. I'm Jodi Brown.

I'm excited to be here too. Amazing. Okay, so I think it is wild that for some people it's like, I've never even used this, I have no idea what this is, and for some people we've been using it for years now. And I am starting to see, I guess there's not a direct correlation with how long people have been using it for, but it is becoming a crutch for some people, business-wise, personal-wise- Yeah.

lots of different spaces, um, and so I think we just wanna break down the difference of, 'cause we're both, we're all three huge fans of AI and getting behind that, but we just notice maybe when we hear people talk about it, or even within ourselves. I could probably even scroll back a while back and things that felt really innovative and new, I can now read and be like, oh, that's clearly AI and maybe that's not how I would say it. So I think, um, yeah, very much every time you go to, um, interact with ChatGPT and/or post publicly with that being your voice, really stop and ask yourself, are these my true thoughts, um, or am I using this as a crutch and it's, like, creating thoughts for me? 'Cause that's where I kind of draw the line personally.

I w- I would agree with that, and I also think for me, when I think about AI and how I use it, efficiency in some situations is the primary concern. But in a lot of situations like creative tasks, content, marketing, efficiency is the secondary consideration, and I feel like sometimes with the ChatGPT-first mode in marketing, that gets flipped around, and I'm not here to create a ton of low-quality content. We wanna make sure that we're creating at a really high standard, but just using AI to actually facilitate that process instead of take it over. That's kind of where I look at it.

Yeah, dude. And I would even argue and say that the, the AI-first creation, in my experience, actually has slowed me down a lot in the past- 100%. and in many cases, because now I'm going back and I'm correcting all of this stuff. And I'm lucky enough to have an eye for understanding what may look like regar- regurgitated AI, you know, language or formatting, but also, I just also have a really great eye and understanding for how to market my business and what my customers are going to relate to and what's gonna hit them, right?

And I understand my brand's voice and all those things, right? And because I have those foundations and fundamentals, because I've gotten the education, because I have the experience, I have, I have the ability, the natural ability to be able to take, let's say, a ChatGPT-first thing or...... even a refined thing and run it through my own filter and be confident that it's actually going to do something good for me, versus just blend into- More of a waste. the rest of the crowd.

Because I think- Yeah. that's what we're seeing, is like, it's, we can s- now start to smell it from a mile away. Mm-hmm. And maybe that's just because we're, we are who we are, and we are seeing it and paying attention to it a little bit more.

But I would argue that even if the majority of people aren't able to smell it, they absolutely will soon enough. Agree with that. And even then some, because of the overproduction of things now, because people are able to be so much more efficient, we're just going to inevitably, nonstop, see more and more and more shit. Like, more and more and more content, 'cause it's easier for people to do it.

And so now I think what's happening is it's, it's more important than ever to make sure that you're standing out. Quality. And I think what can happen with, like, I love what you said, like the AI first method- Mm-hmm. is that you will very much easily blend in, because it, it speaks in a very similar pattern.

It goes back to just these, like, fundamentals and foundations that it has, and it just can get really repetitive, you know? So it makes it a little bit harder to stand out if you don't have your own acumen, understanding, pre-work that you've done to make it so you're using it for efficiently getting things done, but still standing out and making it effective for what you're trying to accomplish. 100%. Hunter, and to your point, I feel like one of my favorite quotes about marketing in general is, "Zig where other people zag."

And so I think that, you know, when we do have mass-produced, really similar content that's flooding our platforms, it creates a gap and it creates a hunger for something different and something new. And I actually think that's a really cool opportunity for people to be able to stand out, stop the scroll, and to get attention in that more aligned and authentic way, versus the majority of what's in the market now. Yeah. Lisa, do you have any thoughts?

Couldn't agree more. Um, I just remember when I was very first introduced, like when it very first dropped, I was in a mastermind class, and he said from day one that, like, this is a game of becoming the best prompt crafter that you can be. Um, because if you typed in anything for hairstylist, again, this AI first kind of thought process, you, uh, we are going to get the same thing. So I think the game is learning how to interact with it.

But then I agree, at the tail end of it, taking that filter through. This is the conversation that Hunter and I were having on the phone the other day, and we laughed and we were like, "We should talk about this on a podcast." But where, like, the em dashes, Hunter hates 'cause he used em dashes before ChatGBT came out. But now, like, you can genuinely smell it from a mile away, like people...

I told Hunter it was, uh, so bizarre. This is not business-related, but I was scrolling Facebook and noticed that people were making Mother's Day posts that were so clearly ChatGBT written. And, like, for me, I guess whatever. If you wanna have, like, a cute poetic thing, that's just to me where it becomes kind of strange- Yeah.

when it's supposed to be like a sentimental, um, thought, like when that's no longer written by you. I instead like to use it for efficiency and data, and much, like, higher pict- bigger picture tasks than just my words coming out of my mouth. That's my take. Totally, totally.

So just so everybody knows, all right, what an em dash is, because l- let me tell you, I had no idea what the hell... I didn't know this was what that was called until, like, I was made aware of this, since this, like, this ChatGBT situation. So, em dashes are where there's, like, two or one hyphens after, like, words, so that way you can kind of, like, take maybe what you would call, like, a run-on sentence, but, like, add some, like, pause or add some more grammatical correctness to it basically. You guys have seen it, trust, believe.

And I... My mom is in marketing, she's, like, a vice president of marketing, she's been doing it for 30 years, and I learned a lot of my copywriting from her, like a lot of it. And she uses em dashes all the damn time. And so I naturally write with em dashes all the damn time.

And now I'm pissed because, ... now I'm pissed because now it's something that, like, people will scope out and just automatically assume is em dashes. Another thing that- ChatGBT loves them. Dude, loves.

And you know what else, uh, ChatGBT really loves is emojis too. Like, it's getting, like, a little bit ridiculous. Totally. Mm-hmm.

I feel like that's where I'm really starting to be able to sniff out, uh, it as well, is with the emojis. So again, guys, like, I think, like, the point of us talking about these and what these, this and th- this, these examples that we're giving is we have this nose for being able to see this stuff, because we're seeing these repetitive patterns. And again, maybe that's just because of what we do for a living and how we, how we're interacting with these tools. But I do believe that the mass majority of people will start to catch on as well.

And again, this is your opportunity to stand out as, uh, as a human with a unique voice who's speaking to the public, um, uh, more than ever right now. And we're, again, not saying to not use the tool, because I think that using the tool is honestly a little bit unreasonable in today's day and age. For sure. Like, uh, uh, but to use it wisely and to still lean into mentorship, peers, um, and education to make it so you do understand how to use the tool wisely.

Do you guys have any other thoughts about that? No, I think that's fair. I just, yeah, I just wanna underscore, like, that I agree with you. We absolutely should be using the tool, but it's like any other tool.

Like, the thing about ChatGBT that I think is really interesting versus, you know, things like even Grammarly or, or things of that nature is that it is such a sophisticated language tool, right? It's so good at sounding legit and sounding like it's completely right. And I think that is what's leading to almost, you know, leaning on it and, and taking it at face value, versus giving the same type of proofreading that you would with any other tool. And so I think that's super true, and I think we just need to really always keep in mind when we're using it, like, we go really hard on, like, the intelligence part, and we, like...

Conveniently forget the artificial part sometimes. That just made me think of another, uh, slightly different direction, but I'd like to mention it 'cause I think it's worth it 'cause I've heard it come up a few times inside of Soul Tribe lately, is I also think there was this rush that happened where all of us started using ChatGPT and AI, where all of a sudden when we are having, like, um, maybe disputes with a client or something, like in dealing with boundaries and things like that, I have found a lot of people get hella offended when they can tell that they're getting a basic ask, especially during conflict resolution- Yep ... and when they're getting a very inhuman ChatGPT response when that client has been your client for years and you've never spoke like that before. And now all of a sudden you're sending them a very customer service feel kind of message.

I have heard that come up multiple times, and I think that's a fascinating take on it, because I agree with you, Jodi. You read it and you're like, "That's exactly what I want to say." But we're losing that human touch that, like, our clients know and love. And sometimes just being a human back and forth gets to the point and, and preserves the relationship as well.

I completely agree. And there's a very real, like, point to this where it's like, if you don't use it, you lose it too, right? So we don't- Yes. wanna lose those customers.

Stability. Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I completely 100% agree. And again, it goes back to, like, being able to have the eye for filtering it, and if you feel like you might not, then...

Like, if you find yourself just copying and pasting these things more often than not, and not really second guessing it, maybe that's a sign that, like, you need to take a step back and maybe have someone- It might be a crutch Yeah, it might be the Yeah. Y- you're using it as a crutch instead of using it as a tool. And I think that this is where peer review is so powerful. Like, this is why, like, I have, like, like, monthly funnel review and strategy and material reviews in my program.

And this is why Lisa has, like, this community where these people can lean into each other whenever, and have people take a look at e- at their stuff, you know. It's because we want to make sure that the things that you're putting out there are optimized for your business, accomplishing the goals that you need to- Totally. even if it is, like, a difficult conversation or something like that. And, uh, I- I've always said, you know, I think the best use case is, like, writing your own version, even it's a, if it's a little choppy because then you don't have to think- Totally ...

about the polishedness of it as much, and then having it polish it. But I will even go as far as saying when I do that, and I do it often, a lot of the time I'm still not copying and pasting the polished version, you know Yeah. So just be mindful, my friends. Just be mindful.

And Jodi also said earlier, um, it's really good at, at sounding like it's right. Mm-hmm. and I, I completely agree with that, and that's w- the next kinda topic that I would love to chat with you guys about, is that how it's oftentimes wrong. Particularly, I mean, here's the cool thing about it.

Here, here's the really awesome thing about it. C- A lot of the time, it is right. Like, a lot of the time, you can use it for, like, interesting research or, um, interpretations of research. Uh, it passed the bar test, apparently.

Crazy Um, which is wild, and you guys Wow. can Google that. Yeah, you guys can- Mm-hmm. Google that article and, and all the other tests that it passed and its ratings for intelligence and things like that, as of, as of the most recent tests and stuff.

Um, but I have found it to be very incorrect in so many different circumstances. Now, me, I'm an fucking nerd, so I'm running, like, crazy numbers, massive amounts of data through it. Like, I'm asking it to do wild math problems, right? Like, create, like, uh, different things for tech and coding, and all that stuff.

I'm, I'm using it to the max, right? And so I'm seeing, like, extreme versions of it being wrong. But even then some, as particularly with, with like, time relevant things, or more important things like legal questions or tax questions, financial questions, especially how, things like tha- that, that differ so much from location to location. Mm-hmm.

It will very confidently. Spit out inaccurate information Very confidently Literally... Literally today, I was like, "What is four weeks from today?" 'Cause I was planning out some launch dates.

And it's like, "Monday, June 24th." It's really bad at that. First of all- Yeah. First of all, June 24th is a Tuesday.

Yeah. And it was like, "2025. This is the date." And I, like, used it for some other date, so it's, yeah, really simple stuff, even that, I feel like we gotta double-check it.

Dude, I hate date math so much. I despise date math. Like, it is genuinely my least favorite thing ever. And time math too, absolutely despise.

That's really a shame that you had that experience because I- ... would love to be able to rely on it for that. I have tried using it, like, calendar organization. I really love Motion AI, the software Mm-hmm.

And so I would assume that ChatGPT would be just as smart as that. It's not. Yeah. It does not- No.

configure properly. Or I will tell it in the same thread, "Here's what I have going on today. Here's what I have going on tomorrow." And it will...

It's definitely not wired correctly to know time in that way. Yeah, I'm sure before long it will. Yeah. But there are, I- I think the, just the overarching caution of we love these tools.

We love playing with them. They're very fun. I absolutely believe that the people who got acquainted with them two years ago are using them, you know, better now, as will the people five years from now who are using them, 'cause I don't think they're going anywhere. Um, but all of that to be said, eh, you can't just replace your brain with this.

That's not a good idea. It's not gonna be helpful, and you're gonna quickly fade into the sea of all other humans, or- Yeah. who knows what they are, all other voices on the internet.And I think it's also something important to point out is that I'm sure the three of us have put a lot of time and energy into training- Hmm.

our ChatGPT too, right? Like, into... Like, I, like you, Hunter, have uploaded so much data and so much copy and so many things. And even with that, there's still a lot of mistakes that happen, right?

Yeah. And so I think it's just, like... 'Cause the advice that I hear a lot of, which I think is true to an extent, but I think also comes with a caveat, is it's all about what you put into it, which, to an extent, is true, but that does not invalidate any of the stuff we're saying. Yeah.

'Cause I am saying all this as someone who has bought every "make ChatGPT sound just like you"- Yeah. Right ... and tried every, you know, like, type of training it, and it's... works really great for some stuff but, like, all of this still happens even after doing all that.

So it's still important to, like, fact-check and double-check. Agree. Yeah. I'll also go as far as to say as well, actually, sometimes the more you try to train it, or the more you in-...

you.. Mm-hmm ... the more information you give it, sometimes it will actually fuck it up even more Because ... because it is trying to...

The, the thing that I hate about it, honestly, like, the one thing that is d- very disappointing to me, is that one of its biggest priorities is speed, which is awesome, right Right Like, it's great that it is gonna give us fast responses. But with speed comes mistakes, it comes overlooking things, it comes taking a piece from here, taking a piece from here, but then forgetting about this context. And a lot of the time, if you're trying to have it do things within these certain parameters and you're overloading it with those parameters, or those, th- that context, it can start to get confused and go a little bit off of tra- off-track. Um, so I personally...

Just a little hot tip for you guys. I know I said that this wasn't gonna be a hot tip, but hot tip, I actually turn the memory off in my ChatGPT. So, like, there's, like, a general, like, memory setting, right, where it, like, starts to, like, remember certain things automatically. Um, I do not like the memory because I find that, like, I'll start a new prompt that's, like, unrelated from another one or whatever it may be And it will pull in information, yeah From the memory- I've experienced that, yeah.

and then it fucks up what I'm trying to accomplish Agree So I'd rather make certain GPTs that are trained for the particular topics, um, or I'll just prompt it myself with the information that it needs, and I try my best to balance giving it the information that it needs, 'cause you absolutely do need to give it the information that it needs to work well, but not overloading it so much to where it'll just start to get a little bit wonky. Yep. But bottom line, it absolutely can be very wrong. Um, there was another example of it being wrong that I wanted to share.

Well, you said earlier, Jodi, um, uh, you said, you said don't let it replace something. I forget. Don't let it replace something. I was thinking, don't let it re- replace your resourcefulness as an entrepreneur.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, particularly for research, um, leaning into your peers for advice, uh, resourcefulness is such an important skill, you know, and I, I, I genuinely believe it sets a lot of successful business owners apart from others. I...

I... It's, it's kind of astounding to me, and this is... No offense to anybody listening to this. Like, if this is you, fine.

And sometimes, som-... I know I've been there where I'm just like, "I don't feel like just doing my own research for this, I'm just gonna, like, go ask this question." It is wild to me how many questions I've seen asked in multiple Facebook groups, like, I don't know, wherever, where somebody will ask this question and I'm like, "I literally, in order to answer this question, I Googled exactly what you asked and I got the answer- And copied and paste this "... immediately."

Like, it is astounding to me. Like, you are waiting so much longer to get this answer from somebody else than you could if you put in a Google search. And even though Google has those AI summaries, another example of... It's oftentimes very wrong.

Those AI summaries suck sometimes. Sometimes they're great, and a lot of the times they're not. So again, be resourceful, be smart, because a lot of the time, the AI summaries or the AI answers that you get will be incorrect and they won't be giving you accurate information. So always just double-check it, run it back.

We were even talking, Jodi, this is the example that I was thinking of. Um, oftentimes, I will use ChatGPT to run, uh, to, tons of surveys and data through a lot of the time. And what I'll oftentimes try to do is I try to, kinda try to cheat a little bit and get testimonials pulled from these surveys, or certain things that- Mm-hmm. people say.

Like, I'll say, "Okay, are... Is there anything that anybody said, even in a transcript, is there anything that anybody said during this, this class or during this whatever, um, during this consultation, that I could use as a testimonial or as an example in a class?" And it will straight up... And I know that you've had this experience, Jodi, 'cause we were talking about it.

It will literally just completely, even though I give it the information- Wait, oh, it just goes- Yes, it just makes up a testimonial, and- With so much confidence. With so much confidence. I will literally be like, "Did somebody actually say that? Yes, somebody actually said that."

I will literally go back and fucking, like, go through and, like, nobody's, nobody motherfucking said that. And then as soon as you call it out, it says, "Oh, my bad. You're right." You're so right.

And then, and then it still gives me bullshit. So again, you need to have eyes for this, because I could even prompt it again- Mm-hmm. and say, "No, you just did that wrong. You're not doing the right thing."

Bad ChatGPT. Bad ChatGPT. And he will still be incorrect. So- So I think what this all comes down to, and we need to remember, this is a language processor.

That's what this is. This is a bunch of coding put together to best predict which words should come next based on the entire internet, every book that's been written, every transcript that's take, taken place ever. It is not a search engine. I love to use it as a search engine.

Y- it is a very...... incredible tool that's, uh, become a new one of its own. But at the end of the day, it is a language processor, and you... and that transcript that you had, Hunter, somebody might have kinda said something, but if it better predicts that these words, and I'm sure the testimonial it spit out at you was a beautiful testimonial, like, you wish it was real.

Oh, no, it's always awesome. I'm like, "Damn, someone said that? This is perfect for what I'm creating." Yes.

It is a language processor. Changed a lot. That's all it is. Yeah.

Period. So true. I actually heard someone say this the other day, and it was like, "Would you, like, entrust predictive text on your iPhone with, like, planning your next business moves?" And that is- Exactly.

a legit question. It's kinda the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Great points, very much so. And I'm gonna go as far as to say, too, like, because we have to also remember, too, and you know, I'm sure there's conspiracy, I'm sure that there is things that people have made as far as official statements go, everybody has their own experiences with AI and all the things, but I'm sure that, um... We just have to remember that this is also a business that we're interacting with. Like, OpenAI is a company in the, uh...

despite the CEO seemingly being a little bit more, uh, caring about the ethical side of things, which you never know in today's day and age, you know, I don't fucking trust shit, nobody else trusts shit, you shouldn't trust shit, you're still interacting with a business. And I believe that any smart business would make it so their product is something that somebody enjoys using. And so part of that possible coding or whatever it may be, and what we've seen, which is why it ends up being wrong, why it pulls these magical testimonials out of nowhere, is it's trying to give us the answer that's gonna make us happy with what it's giving us. Right?

Like- Best user experience they can. The same way a shampoo company would wanna give you the same thing. Yeah. Exactly.

100%. So, it's just gonna validate you, right? And so this brings me to my story. I've shared this with both of you guys, 'cause I thought it was like, it was very, it was very...

it kind of, like, was a little bit earth shattering for me, because I personally have been using ChatGBT for my own personal life in many different ways. And, uh, honestly, one of those ways is through, like, some hard emotional shit that I've been through, right? And I know that a lot of people, people have been talking about, like, using it as a therapist and things like that. And nobody on this call personally recommends that you do that in any way, shape, or form.

Um, this is all hypothetical, this is all administrative advice, or philosophical advice. It's all fake, so don't sue us. So, people have been using it, and I've using it, and honestly, like, got some really g- like, genuinely amazing, amazing experience being able to talk through those things with ChatGBT. Like, genuinely.

Um, however, I saw, and I'd been using it for a while, and I even was kind of like, "Yeah, like, this is a really cool way to use it. I don't see why people wouldn't wanna use it this way." And then, I saw somebody post something on it, on, on social, and it was this screenshot of Chat... and, you know, it might have been fake, but I think it's still, even if it was fake, I think this is absolutely still possible.

It was like, it was like, the person prom- uh, uh, prompted, and they were like, "Thank you so much for helping me realize that there are s- uh, people are spying on me in my room, and my... and I had to move out of my parents' place," and yada, yada, yada, right? So obviously, it was like, validating this person's, like, hallucinations or whatever- Delusions. Yeah.

that they, they thought was going on. And that was, and that's... obviously has a lot of potential for harm, and, and harming people, because it's just going to blindly validate without checking itself or thinking about the consequences. And so I'm just also gonna PSA, you know, like, if you are using it for that, or you're thinking about using it for that, or you are recommending that people use it for that, that you take into consideration, this is not a fucking human being.

It's a language processor, like we said, and there is a highly likely chance that it is doing... it, that is programmed to just validate you and just give you the- To mirror you. Yeah. Yes.

To mirror you and give you the answer that you feel like is gonna be best for you, you know? I oftentimes, a little trick, and this is not for the therapy side of things, okay? Seriously. Like, I'm, I'm so, like, not recommending you use it.

Nobody here is recommending that you use it for that. I'm being fucking for real. For the business side of things, where you're maybe trying to use it for a little bit of adv- uh, advice, I l- oftentimes will be like, okay, I will literally ask it, I'm like, "Are you just telling me what I wanna hear?" Like, or I'll literally say, like, play devil's advocate.

Like, tell me the opposite of this. Like, give me the... like, and I also say, like, "If you were an expert and you didn't agree with me, why would you not agree with me?" Like, I like to get the opposite side of things.

Broader than everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise, it'll just say, "Yeah, you're cool.

And here are some, here are some little adjustments or improvements that you can make." I'm like, "No, bitch. Tell me why I'm fucking wrong. Please."

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Things like market research, too.

I think it's really important to take that into consideration as well, because like, a lot of the times it'll fabricate things about even things you wanna make or things you wanna do in order to be like, "Yeah, that's a great idea." So, that's such a good point. Yeah. Lisa, do you have any ideas?

I- I do. I'm gonna go on a little bit of a tailspin. I, obviously, for legal purposes, also agree, n- we're not telling you to use it as your therapist, but it's funny that you said this, 'cause I knew we were filming this, uh, podcast episode, and someone just on a Soul Tribe call the other day was like, "Oh, I've been using it as therapy." I was like, "Uh, I'm not gonna say that that's a good answer.

We're about to do..." I, like, pitched, or, you know, shared that we were gonna, about to do this podcast episode. Yeah. But I came across a TikTok today about a therapist talking about how ChatGBT is harmful for this reason, for the same reason a lot of therapists right now are harmful.

And just the broken system that is the mental health system. Yeah. And I agreed with what she's saying, because it's all about human connection. But then I opened the comments, and there was like 400 comments of everyone saying, "I have been paying therapists thousands of dollars for years and years and years.

I've never got as good a feedback as this." So like, just from a philosophical, like, us being humans not giving advice, I also, like, see where people's comment- are coming from. It's very, very tricky. But yeah, I think if we're gonna stand on a platform and say, "We love, love, love using ChatGBT," we just have to talk about the dangers that come along with it as well.

And I think, 100%, if I spent 10 minutes right now convincing ChatGBT of my delusions, I think I could absolutely get it to say that prompt. Absolutely. That- that was shared. 100%.

Yeah.Without a doubt. I will, I will say I've seen those exact same videos, and I've seen those comments. And I will say, like, I'm even, like, a part of...

I didn't actually, I've never, I never leave comments on anything. Yeah. I'm too lazy, girl. But I, like, would say, like, I wa- was once, like, on the side of those comments.

Yeah. Like I said, like, I've had my own personal experience of being like, "Wow, this is fucking awesome." Like, and I don't have any, like, zero human bias, like- Yeah. on the other side of the phone, of the, of the room, like, that is getting in the way of me being able to work through these things by myself.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I don't even have to, I don't have to think about the, the things that I'm saying. I'm not scared to be super vulnerable with it.

Like, there is a lot of power in that, and I can see the attraction to it. And so again, like, I've personally had good experiences, but it is very easily a slippery slope, and it should not replace, like, educated medical professional advice at all. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, like, the outward processing.

Like, I feel like that totally, I can see, like, the, the value in that. I feel like it's, maybe the slippery slope p- piece is when it's, like, taking major life actions based on advice gotten there, you know? Yep, 100%. Yeah.

And since we're talking a little about, I don't know, dangers or the controversial things, let me preface this by saying I very much, I feel like hopefully, I feel like I'm throwing Lisa and Jodi for a loop with this. I am somebody, if you guys know me, if you guys listen to me, if you guys have been following me for a long time, I'm somebody who, I'm, I, I like hitting hard topics. I like putting it out in the air and just, just talking about it. I also like advertising what I stand for and believe in.

And so I wanna just preface this. We haven't talked about this, by the way, like, before getting into this. But I just wanna preface this next point by saying, like, Jodi and Lisa, unless they have something to say about it, I have nothing to do with what I'm about to say. And their stance and whatever it may be, unless they say it, is, has nothing to do with mine.

Fair. I just wanna atta- I just wanna attack this because I thought it was interesting, and it's something that I think is important. So I, on the Modern Hairstylist tour, which Lisa, you're gonna be fucking joining us on the fucking Modern Hairstylist tour- So soon. So soon, in Indianapolis.

Um, couldn't tell you the date off the top of my head. So sorry, I got a lot of dates on my brain. End of July. And- I think the 27th and the 28th, if I'm not mistaken.

Period. End of July. We're gonna leave the information for you in the show notes. On the Modern Hairstylist tour, I have a whole ChatGBT training segment, okay?

And I, and I've been blowing people's mind with this shit, all right? It's been a lot of fun. And one of the first questions I asked, uh, w- I asked everybody in this, in the audience is, like, "What's your biggest hesitation?" Or, like, "Why aren't you using it right now?"

And one of my students said to me straight up, like, "The environmental impact. Like, I've read so much about how, like, it's terrible for the environment, and how it's using a shit ton of water, and it's burning down trees and all this stuff," right? And honestly, it, like, really kind of shook me up, and I was like, "Damn." Like, "You are so right."

And particularly as somebody who really cares about that type of stuff, I really had to kind of sit down with my own, like, thoughts and morals and, and, uh, alignment with using something that may have a harmful effect on the environment. And so the effect on the environment, uh, you know, you guys can all do your own research, and I'm sure, you know, my own research is flawed in, in one way or another. But it seems to me as if, like, the training for these AI models takes a significant amount of environmental resources, including water and energy, to, uh, uh, actually train those things, and then the ongoing use isn't as much. However, it obviously accumulates, and it still does take up a lot of energy.

And people, and, and AI is just rapidly expanding and growing at a insane pace. It's that production, legislation, um, uh, the world and its resources- Cannot keep up. cannot keep up with, right? No, no.

And so the environmental impact is real. It is absolutely real. And I think that I would be, I personally would, uh, uh, it'd be a shame if I didn't talk about it, because it is a very real concern, especially for my particular audience, 'cause I think we're all on the same page as far as our core values go. Mm-hmm.

And what I will say is that, you know, I, like I said earlier, I think it is almost unreasonable to not use AI as a tool in your business, particularly for us as small businesses, for businesses who don't have b- a lot of business acumen, who don't have a whole entire huge team who has the opportunity and a lot of money, period, to hire a whole ass team to be o- to do all these tasks, particularly for our industry that has a full time job of just doing the hair but then also has to do all this business-y sh- stuff on top of it, and there's barely any time to do it. And in a world in which everybody is starting to adopt these tools and increase efficiency, and the market is becoming significantly more competitive because of that, I think it is just unfortunately unreasonable for you as a business owner to not be using this tool. I just genuinely believe that that's the case. And unfortunately, there is environmental impact that comes with that.

And so first off, just acknowledging the fact that, like, I promote this, I, I teach how to use it, and I really enjoy it, because I think that it can help a lot of people who aren't on that same playing field of these massive corporations who have huge teams who can help them and have all this time in the world, and money and resources. Um, I think that it can help people who don't have that. I think it can help even the playing field basically. My T is, is I think what I'm reminded of when it comes to this kind of conversation and any environmental impact conversation, is a lot of the times the rhetoric that's out there will be blaming the consumer instead of the company.

Like, a lot of the times it'll hold the consumer accountable versus the company. Like, it'll make us think, like, "Oh, if we recycle this can, then we're saving the world," or whatever it may be. Or we should feel guilty for, you know, I don't know, taking a fucking hot shower for more than a minute or whatever it may be. And yes, of course, like, there is a little bit of truth to the fact that we as consumers over-consume.

However, what about the companies who are, number one, making us addicted to certain products, producing things in unethical ways to make it so their profit margins are high, and they're not being held accountable or holding themselves accountable to making it so their environmental impact is the, the, the smallest that it can possibly be? And that is the... And, and AI companies particularly, because it's a much newer industry, and unfortunately government particularly, sorry about it-... the government that we're in right now, is, is going to be very late to regulating these types of concerns with these new AI companies, and it, I mean, e- e- especially because there's so many new ones being created at such a rapid pace.

And I am, what I'm hope, what I'm hoping is that we hold these companies accountable and that there is actual legal action and legislation to holding these corporations accountable, to making it so, if AI is going to be present, 'cause it already is fucking here and it's not going away anytime soon, that the way that it is managed, handled, mass produced, and operated, systematized, all the things, is with the least amount of environmental impact as possible. Do you guys have any thoughts? I couldn't agree more. I think when you just think about it at scale, AI models are now using AI models are using AI models.

Yeah. Like, the amount, no, like truly, the amount of computing that's happening, whether humans even interact with it or not at this point, it does... And it is kind of, if you really want to spiral, it is kind of like how the hell does all of this end up? Um, but I always like to go through life with an optimistic lens- Yeah.

and hope that eventually the people who are in charge... But I agree. And so, I guess, Hunter, you say it's im- did you, impractical was the word that you used to not use it? Unreasonable.

Unreasonable. Um, so you would, what do you think is someone's stance on just saying like, "I'm not going to use it, and that's for me"? Absolutely and fucking don't use it. Okay, then yeah, you can speak for them.

I mean, you both kno- you both, you both hear me say all the time, you run your business however the fuck you want to run your business. Yep. I do not care. And however you want to run your business, if, if you choose to, me to be your mentor- For sure.

however you want to run your business, I'm going to, my mission is to support you in the way that you want to run your business and give you all the tools and resources that I possibly can within your parameters of your boundaries, your core values, all the things. So, you do whatever the fuck you want to do, my friend. Like pop off. And if you're going to decide to not use this thing, BT dubs, you should be doing this anyway, if you actually want to make this tool work for you.

If you want it to be fucking good for you- Yeah. and not fuck your shit up- Yeah. then you should absolutely be educating yourself and doing the work to figure out your own... to build your own tools in your brain.

That's the, this is the tea. Nobody can take knowledge away from you. Like, I am so confident in how fucking smart I am because of the work that I put in, the research I put in, the experience that I have. I am so confident that no matter what the fuck happens in the world, whether I completely lose access to AI because of some crazy legal situation, whether I, I don't fucking know, whether I had to lose my entire team tomorrow, I am so confident because I have the knowledge and the acumen that I can still create a strong, beautiful ass business and living for myself.

And I'm just gonna encourage you to empower yourself with that same confidence through knowledge, because when tools such as this come up that allow you to be more efficient, you will then be able to approach them responsibly and in an optimized way, use them to get you further than where you are now, without risk. Did I make sense? It made perfect sense. Yeah.

And I think you should feel that way. I agree. Thank you. And I would agree to that for both of y'all.

I think both of y'all, if y'all, you, we all have our own unique, beautiful skill sets and we all have some experience and knowledge, and we were doing the same thing before this AI thing came out, and I think that if AI was gone tomorrow, then we would absolutely be able to still be on our feet standing strong. And I would love that for every single business owner. And so I love that you say, Lisa, like, to quote you, like, "Use it as a tool, not a crutch." And I think that that's like the overall message of this episode.

So, is there any other thoughts that either of you would like to share? I feel good. How about you, Jodi? I feel good too.

I feel like we covered a lot. Period. Okay, well, so here's the tea. I was, we were, we were shitting on AI this entire time, you know, all the things.

But however, like I, like we said, I think it's unreasonable for you to not be using it. And so if you want to learn some advanced AI shit, if you want to be maximizing ChatGPT, have an eye for making sure that it actually is giving you great responses and things like that, then I am teaching that in the Modern Hairstylist Tour. Something, uh, it's new content that I'm not really teaching, I'm not teaching most of it in my programs already, and so it's brand new and you all will learn a ton from it. We are getting beautiful reviews from every single attendee from the Modern Hairstylist Tour, and we are so honored to have Lisa Hough and Stylist Soul Tribe as a guest speaker at, uh, the Modern Hairstylist Tour Indianapolis date.

Our very good friend Kimber Chapman will be hosting as well too. So for those of you who, uh, are familiar with Kimber and maybe the Clubhouse days, it's going to be a nice little reunion and we're all going to have a party and it's going to be fucking sick. So highly recommend that you come. We're going to leave the details for you in the show notes and thank you so much for tuning into the Modern Hairstylist podcast.

And the Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations podcast. Period. And Jodi Brown, we appreciate you so fucking much. You're such a, you are so special to me and your perspective is so important to me.

I learn from you every day and that's exactly why I wanted to have you as part of this conversation and you added so much value. Lisa, I love you so much and you're my fucking bestie and you're the fucking queen and I love how you care so much for this industry and your perspective and getting to talk these things out with you. So thank you both so much for spending this time with me today. I really appreciate it.

You're the best. Thank you, Hunter. All right. Peace out, girl scout.

Bye-bye.

End of transcript. © 2025 Hunter Donia LLC.